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Ball park pricing for adding 4th axis milling to 2 1/2 axis milling

David Carlisi

Stainless
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Location
Alpharetta, Ga USA
I already have a fairly common brand name software for my Fadal 5020, and I asked for pricing to add 4th axis milling. The quote that I received was about 5-8 times what I had expected to pay.
Does anyone have experience adding 4th axis milling to existing 2 1/2 milling software? Or is it time to ditch the whole thing and go with another brand?
 
I thinks gibbscam got me $2500 on top of 3d solidsurfacer to add 4th axis rotary milling, add on would have been the same over the traditional 2.5 ax I think, but it depends on what you have license for I think. Sometimes you can "program each face" if doing positioning, then edit the programs together....
 
I think you have more than a few options here.

1) Use the current software you have for indexing.

Use different work offsets for each index, and add the index codes manually at the work offset.

This would cost you nothing and would be easy to implement.


2) What are you getting in the 4 axis package

4 Axis could include indexing, wrapping, rotary and true 4 axis tool paths. So the cost you received may be based on getting more options that you really don't need or want to pay for. So should be able to add indexing only or some version of just indexing for a lower cost than adding a full 4 axis package.

With that said their could be some real value to adding a full 4 axis package not matter what the cost it. It just depends on the work you do now and what you might want to do in the future.

3) Try to work it out with your VAR
Most systems will offer you an up front quote that may be more than you want to pay. There is margin in the deal when working with a reseller, if you let them know you may be taking your business else where it may motivate them to shave some dollars off the price.

4) I do not recommend switching CAM systems on the fly. There is more cost in learning a system and implementing one then there is in buying one. Who else does the change effect, posts, legacy files etc... Adding new software with new options can be really good thing, you just need to think the whole process out.

5) For BobCAD-CAM, Yes I work there, to add our 4 axis standard is about $999 and you get indexing wrapping and rotary tool paths.
 
I think you have more than a few options here.
1) Use the current software you have for indexing.
Use different work offsets for each index, and add the index codes manually at the work offset.
This would cost you nothing and would be easy to implement.
2) What are you getting in the 4 axis package
4 Axis could include indexing, wrapping, rotary and true 4 axis tool paths. So the cost you received may be based on getting more options that you really don't need or want to pay for. So should be able to add indexing only or some version of just indexing for a lower cost than adding a full 4 axis package.
With that said their could be some real value to adding a full 4 axis package not matter what the cost it. It just depends on the work you do now and what you might want to do in the future.
3) Try to work it out with your VAR
Most systems will offer you an up front quote that may be more than you want to pay. There is margin in the deal when working with a reseller, if you let them know you may be taking your business else where it may motivate them to shave some dollars off the price.
4) I do not recommend switching CAM systems on the fly. There is more cost in learning a system and implementing one then there is in buying one. Who else does the change effect, posts, legacy files etc... Adding new software with new options can be really good thing, you just need to think the whole process out.
5) For BobCAD-CAM, Yes I work there, to add our 4 axis standard is about $999 and you get indexing wrapping and rotary tool paths.


Al,

That's actually all very sound advice, but I am curious about BobCAD's 4A routines/strategies.
What's different than any others? For instance, how does it compare to what MC, Gibbs, or HSMW has available?
Have the paths been updated lately? ( I saw/experimented with them a long time ago so am curious if improvements have been made )

Thanks.
 
I will look into Gibbscam. I have to make a helical gear, so it has to do an A and an X move at the same time. It is Camworks and they quoted $8137.50 to add 4 axis including 3 axis surface machining. I think that the price is well over what the current market should bear, but I could be wrong.
 
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I think you have more than a few options here.

2) What are you getting in the 4 axis package

4 Axis could include indexing, wrapping, rotary and true 4 axis tool paths. So the cost you received may be based on getting more options that you really don't need or want to pay for. So should be able to add indexing only or some version of just indexing for a lower cost than adding a full 4 axis package.

With that said their could be some real value to adding a full 4 axis package not matter what the cost it. It just depends on the work you do now and what you might want to do in the future.

This is rather true, when we last evaluated, there was a huge difference in what was included in 4th axis. HSMWorks, for instance, includes 3+2 indexing with the standard 3D package, with only 4th/5th axis simultaneous toolpaths split out into the top tier package.

This works well for us, as we do a lot of 'multi faced' parts and absolutely zero surfaced 4/5a stuff. Interestingly, they also include 4-axis substitution in the standard package, which is really all you would need for a simple helical gear (after all, you're just substituting an a-axis rotation for a y-axis move)

BUT some other companies, if the thing is outputting anything to a rotary axis, regardless of whether it could alternately be programmed with the method Al outlined first.. require an upgrade. Often, it's not just a cheap upgrade (such as Bobcad, who simply allows you a very good range of a-la-carte options) but a full multi-axis simultaneous package, and I believe that's what you're being hit with from Camworks. Or at least.. for the price, I HOPE that's what it is.
 
Interestingly, they also include 4-axis substitution in the standard package, which is really all you would need for a simple helical gear (after all, you're just substituting an a-axis rotation for a y-axis move)

That's true, it should be standard for 2 1/2 axis package when you look at it this way.
I probably should have poked around a bit more before going for Camworks. I bought it because they are linked to Solidworks, and that is what most customers are sending these days.
I don't mind paying for good quality products, but I hate it when companies attempt to charge more than the current market should bear.
 
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This is rather true, when we last evaluated, there was a huge difference in what was included in 4th axis. HSMWorks, for instance, includes 3+2 indexing with the standard 3D package, with only 4th/5th axis simultaneous toolpaths split out into the top tier package.

That's how Edgecam does it also. 4th axis wrapping is included in Production Milling, true 4 and 5 axis is in Advanced with surfacing for about $6-8K IIRC.
 
That's how Edgecam does it also. 4th axis wrapping is included in Production Milling, true 4 and 5 axis is in Advanced with surfacing for about $6-8K IIRC.

That is what I was thinking, between what I already paid for the software, and what I pay per year for support, 4th axis wrapping should be included. It's fairly simple.
 
I would definitely look at OneCNC also. We use their 4 th axis package and love it! Very easy to use, good simulation also
 








 
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