To All:

I use GibbsCam, and it doesn't have an extensive Tool Library.

I just wondered how much faster an extensive Tool Library might be, hence this little test.

Here are 10 different Tools, how long does it take you to select (or create) these tools in your CAM system and put them in your tooling column or area?

Tool 1 - 4" Face Mill 5 Inserts
Tool 2 - 3/4" Inserted End Mill 3 Inserts .030 Tip Radius
Tool 3 - .500 Carbide 4 Flute End Mill 1" Flute Length
Tool 4 - 1/2" 90 Degree Spot Drill
Tool 5 - 5/16" 135 Degree Drill
Tool 6 - 3/8-16 Tap
Tool 7 - 27/64" 135 Degree Drill
Tool 8 - 1/2-13 Tap
Tool 9 - 23/64 135 Degree Drill
Tool 10 - .375 Reamer 6 Flute


So how long does it take to add these 10 tools to your program? (accurate minutes & seconds please)

Does your CAM system have a tool library?

What CAM system do you use?

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

In Mastercam it takes me about 5 seconds to pull a tool from the library into an operation. Tool libraries are a notorious week point for Gibbs. when I used it my work around was to have a blank part saved with all 24 (mill) or 20(number of VDI holders I had for the lathe) tools saved but in tiles that started with the number 25. then I could just drag the ones i needed into the right numbered slots when I needed them. not the best solution, but it was better than defining my tools over and over and over. Never got into saving processes, which is another way of doing it. I found that very counter intuitive personally.

I also have a lathe & mill new "template" saved for the machines I have with their respective tools. I then save the part as whatever it is. On Gibbs online they have available a tool library macro that you can download & then import into your gibbs under the get plug ins, it is quite extensive and since I keep the same tools in my machine except for on rare occasion i find the other way easier for me. I would guess that to set up the tools you suggested would take me somewhere in the range of 10 minutes or less. If you need the tool file macro and instructions send me a p.m. and I'll email you a zip file.

[QUOTE=micro;1236620]In Mastercam it takes me about 5 seconds to pull a tool from the library into an operation. Tool libraries are a notorious week point for Gibbs. QUOTE]

Micro:

Let me try to refine what I'm looking for. What I'd like to know is the time difference between creating tools on the fly, and accessing, searching for, selecting, and transferring tools that have been saved to a library database to your tool list.
The particular tools are not important to me here. 4" or 2" face mill - 135 or 118 degree drill, whatever, I don't care about that. It's just the relative time differences in the two methods for filling up the tool list is what I'm interested in.
But I also don't want a guesstimate, I'd like an actual timed loading of the tool list.

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

So what do you mean by "loading the tool list"? Is that a list of tools that are available for use for a particular part? If so, in Surfcam the entire library of tools is right there whenever you need it. Each new toolpath starts out with the same tool as the last toolpath (if thats how you have it set up). If you need a different tool, it takes about 5 seconds to select it from the library. If the tool you need is not in the library, it takes about 20-40 seconds to create one which will be available from that point on for any part. You can also create a custom tool by modifying any parameter of a standard tool, but that tool won't be available for other parts.

CC:

Yes, that is precisely what I meant.

I'm interested in how long it would take to load 10 tools from tool library and put them in the list of tools that are available for use in a particular part program.

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

If I understand correctly, you have to pull tools from your library into your model in a list, then pull from that list to use them in the model? In Edgecam, the entire library is accessible to the model, takes about 3-4- clicks depending how far you filter the tools by type to pick a tool from the library and put it in the operations list.

I use feature cam. Fc can have a bunch of tool libraries. I create on for each machine that way the tool #'s are correct for each machine for each tool in the library. Sometimes I go to fc just to see what tools are in a machine. If I need a different tool that's not in the machine's library Fc has a tool manager window where you can copy tools from library to library. You can also create new tools or modify existing tools in any library. Each part can also have it's own library. That's what FC defaults to when you create a multi fixture file.

in surfcam it takes me more time to think what tool i want to use than it take to grab and pick one....and if i don't have one in the tool list all i do is over ride the impute boxes.

secounds over minutes

In WorkNC it's a non-issue. Selecting the tool is a couple mouse clicks in a second or two. Same with madCAM.

Of course, at some point in the beginning of it all time was spent building the libraries, but it was well worth it from that point on.

Dan

Along Edster's line, in Featurecam the software picks the tool, based on your settings in the configuration. Now, often enough the tool isn't the correct one ( say a 3FL vs a 4FL ). In those cases you get a prompt to pick a different tool. The tools are separated into different types, such as Drill, Endmill, Bullnose EM, Ballnopse EM, Facemills etc etc.
All you do is click the group, and then you get the window what's available in that group, listed alphabetically or numerically ( based on alphabetical digits ) ascending. If you have populated your toolcrib properly, picking the correct tool is literally 2 clicks and maybe a short scroll.
I know you want an actual microsecond time, but it really depends on how fast you can read click and scroll, so I'd say it's between 4 and 10 seconds.

In addition, you can pull in tools from a different crib, ( any crib ) so that takes 2 more clicks.
Furthermore, you can create a tool on-the-fly, in which case just double click the tool's description, which puts you into the tool editor where you can either re-define the tool and save it to the same name, OR redefine it and save it as a completely new tool which is then added to the current crib. This process may be a minute or so, but there are about 40 different settings for each and every tool so the time depends on how much info you're entering.

SD and Others:

I know you're all trying to work with me here, but I find it surprising that not ONE person has done a timed run. I thought for sure you guys would get into the spirit of the challenge. A sort of battle of the CAM systems. Obviously that hasn't happened. I posted the same "Test" over in alt.machines.cnc, but they seem so focued on political & personal bickering that they don't have any extra time for this sort of thing. That was a joke... well mostly, heh.

Perhaps it's that you guys don't wear a geek watch with a stopwatch feature, like I do?
Well here's an online stopwatch to solve that problem, start it, minimise it, choose & transfer all the tools, maximise the stopwatch, and pause it:

http://www.online-stopwatch.com/

Anyway let me add what I originally wrote in amc.

================================================== =========

It was recently mentioned that GibbsCam doesn't have an extensive Tool Library. And that's a valid point, it doesn't. What it has is 20 basic Tool types that you edit to meet your needs.
Now GibbsCam has the ability to save processes, and it is also able to save tools alone WITHOUT the processes.

I just wondered how much faster an extensive Tool Library might be, hence this little test.
Here are 10 different Tools, how long does it take you to select (or create) these tools in your CAM system and put them in your tooling column or area?

4" Face Mill 5 Inserts
3/4" Inserted End Mill 3 Inserts .030 Tip Radius
.500 Carbide 4 Flute End Mill 1" Flute Length
1/2" 90 Degree Spot Drill
5/16" 135 Degree Drill
3/8-16 Tap
27/64" 135 Degree Drill
1/2-13 Tap
23/64 135 Degree Drill
.375 Reamer 6 Flute

It took me 2 minutes 50 seconds to create the 10 Tools above from scratch in Gibbs.
It took me 2 minutes 2 seconds to choose those same 10 tools saved as processes. And that was probably optimum as there were only a few processes to choose from.
================================================== =========

The point isn't that you can copy ONE tool in 5 seconds from a tool library entry, the issue I'm trying to resolve is how long would it take to access, search, select, and transfer TEN tools to the tool list area. The tools don't have to be the exact same ones on MY list, any ten will do. A face mill, a roughing end mill, finishing, end mill, spot drill, some tap drills and taps, reamer, etc. etc.
I thought it would be an enlightening exercise - but there seems to be no takers...so far. Come on, it'd be fun. I'm waiting to be impressed by the time saving advantage of having a Tool Library. You've GOT to be able to beat 2 minutes 50 seconds, eh?

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

MasterCam....

Selecting 10 tools... about 4-1/2 Mississippis. Is that what you're looking for ?
Not sure what the objective is here. Although, I would guess that if it took almost 3 minutes to select 10 tools, I'd be a bit jacked....

Creating tools on the fly? Maybe 2 seconds. Creating a tool with accurate data? Depends on how fast I can type some numbers. then of course, whether or not I want to add in any extensions, the holder, etc.

Bob, I think that's where some of us are a little confused.
If I was to properly fill in all the values ( min 35!!!) in Featurecam, it would take me longer than 2min30sec to create a single tool.
If I was to add the speed/feed overrides for the materials, it would be much longer.
To actually select them from the crib, I think there is a difference in how each of our CAM software behaves and uses the tools. For example, I can't just select 10 tools for the job. I have to select ( or accept the default selection ) for each operation separately. The test you've proposed isn't something I can do, there are no provisions to select multiple tools as the tool selection is specific to the op itself.

I don't mean to piss you off by half answers, it's just difficult to tell and the roughly 5 sec/tool selection is the best I can say.

SD:

Don't worry, you're not pissing me off at all. But I think I see the discrepancy here. To choose tools in Gibbs all you need is very basic info, like the diameter, number of flutes and length, included angle on drills (if it's other than the 118 default), etc.
Material, speeds & feeds, DOC, pecks, clearance planes, etc. are done separately in the "machining process" tiles.

So I can now see there may not be a way to directly compare selecting tools in Gibbs and from the tool library in FeatureCam.

How many other CAM systems include material, speeds & feeds, etc. in their tool selection?

--
BottleBob
http://home.earthlink.net/~bottlbob

It's not so much that it's a point where the toolpath needs it but many systems will allow you to set up a "default" status for speeds, feeds, coolant, teeth, holder types, peck rates, ,etc, etc and can even associate it with the material being cut.

as bad as i hate to say "since im extremely pissed at featurecam right now" If you use auto feature recognition tools take about hmm? a nano second to be generated. FC looks at the libraries and says, Well this is the best tool. but if its not there then FC designs it for you, instantly. so, all in al about 1 second for as many tools as the job needs.



"DOWN WITH DELLCAM"

told you i was pissed!!!!

BottleBob,

So I'm wondering how many times you have defined a 1/2 end mill in the last week, month, year, lifetime? Or compound it by 3 if it was a 1/4-20 tap, spot, pilot and tap. Now compound it again by machine, vertical, horizontal, main spindle, sub-spindle, B-Axis, lower and upper turret. Now consider you need to locate, qualify, load each tool every time. I would rather know what is loaded in the machine(s) and have a template that matches.

Ok, just checked a quickie time and bogus tool creation.
From the time I clicked "NEW" to the time to click "Save" it was 80 seconds.
That filled in the tool values, end type, tool material ( HSS/Carb?cob) and typing in the actual name of the tool.
At this point the rest of the options were only verified but not altered.
So making the guess that creating 10 tools from scratch would be roughly 10-12 minutes.
After this, the tool becomes part of the tool library as a whole, but will only be visible in the current crib. I can now move it to any crib and make it available to any future programs.
The actual selection itself is as Gcoder ( Who is now really pissed at Delcam ) stated is automatic and takes 0 time. To pick a different one at any point is as simple as:
1: Click Operation
2: Click Tool tab
3: Scroll to select the appropriate tool.

Now #1 step can actually be discounted, as this is already done because you're already in the operation edit screen where EVERYTHING for that operation is modified anyway.
Now the actual "Tool" tab presents you with the contents of the current toolcrib, which is typically populated with all the tools you have. In this case selecting a tool that is already defined by you ( at any time in the past ) is literally 2 seconds as it is immediately available to you.
An example of the toolcrib's contents would be under the SPOTDRILLS group you'd see:
1/8 x 90deg.
1/8 x 60 deg
1/4 x 90 deg.
1/4 x 60 deg
3/8 x 90 deg.
3/8 x 60 deg

However long it takes you to click on the proper one is how long it takes to select it.

Now the reason for all the other "stuff" in the tool definition is that let's say you change the default selection of a 1/4 x 90 deg. tool to a 3/8 x 60 deg carbide tool, the operation is immediately updated with new speeds, feeds, depth and even a tool# so no need to edit anything else PROVIDED!!! the tool definition is correct in the first place.
A good example for this would be say when you finish a 1.5" deep pocket. The software initially selected a 1/2" endmill having a .625 LOC. This tool obviously need 3 separate passes in Z-level to properly finish the feature.
You go ahead, click on the tool tab and select a 1/2" endmill with a LOC of 2". The operation immediately changes the finish to a single pass at 1.5" depth.
Furthermore, let's assume you've defined this longer tool with a speed/feed override ( too long and would chatter ) of 50%. The speeds/feeds would automatically change to reflect that and post the appropriate values.

Of course, you can always override any of the values the sw. calculates.

Mastercam seems to be similar to feature cam regarding tool libs. Speaking as one who has used Gibbs and Mastercam extensively, they handle tools very differently. In Mastercam, you don't select which tools you plan to use for the job. You call up a machine definition, which you create once when you first install the software or whenever you buy a new machine thereafter. This should have a library of all the tools in that machine including their position and offset numbers as well as any cutting parameters. You don't need to open a "start Part" or template file. Just creating a new blank part and selecting a machine from a drop down menu automatically makes all the tools in that machine available when you create operations. If you load a non standard tool then you'll have to create a new tool (which can be stored in the library for later use or not) which I timed myself this afternoon at 45sec. (for a 3.15" 6 insert face mill). Once the machine def and tool libraries are in place, picking a tool for use in an operation (which is done after the process and geometry are selected) took me 6 seconds including tweaking the plunge feed rate.