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Critique my Fadal program?

Richard/SIA

Cast Iron
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
No. Nevada
Finally making chips on the "New" Fadal 15.

Current program is the top side of custom Picatinny scope rails.
Runs OK but I'm disappointed that it is much slower than I had hoped.
Also wondering if I can get rid of the "Bounce" after the spindle stops between tool changes, or is that a Fadal thing?
Spindle rotation stops, small rise in Z, then drops back down before fully retracting.
Not a bad issue, just an annoying unnecessary movement.

Somewhat long program as the slot cutting is repetitive.
No chance of a canned cycle for this?

Have a lot of these to do, hints for optimization and faster feed where possible would help with tweaking the post processor.

O0000 ( PIC-RAIL_OP1 )
( CREATED ON 03-21-17 AT 5:33 PM )
( PIC-RAIL\PIC-RAIL.MCAM )
( PIC-RAIL_OP1.NC )
( MATERIAL - ALUMINUM INCH - 6061 )
G20
G0 G17 G40 G49 G80 G90 H0 E1 Z0
( 1/8 CENTERDRILL TOOL - 2 DIA. OFF. - 2 LEN. - 2 DIA - 0.125 )
T2 M6
G0 G90 S2500 M3 X-1.775 Y-.5
H2 Z1. M8
G81 G98 X-1.775 Y-.5 Z-.168 R0.1 F3.
X-2.175
X-5.675
G80
M5 M9
G28 Z0.
M1
( NO. 49 DRILL TOOL - 3 DIA. OFF. - 3 LEN. - 3 DIA - 0.073 )
T3 M6
G0 G90 S3000 M3 X-1.775 Y-.5
H3 Z1. M8
G83 G98 X-1.775 Y-.5 Z-.638 R0.1 Q.06 F3.
X-2.175
X-5.675
G80
M5 M9
G28 Z0.
M1
( 3/32 FLAT ENDMILL TOOL - 5 DIA. OFF. - 5 LEN. - 5 DIA - 0.218 )
T5 M6
G0 G90 S3000 M3 X-1.775 Y-.5
H5 Z1. M8
G83 G98 X-1.775 Y-.5 Z-.392 R0.1 Q.06 F3.
X-2.175
G80
X-5.675
G83 G98 X-5.675 Y-.5 Z-.297 R0.1 Q.06 F3.5
G80
M5 M9
G28 Z0.
M1
( 3/16 FLAT ENDMILL TOOL - 1 DIA. OFF. - 1 LEN. - 1 DIA - 0.1875 )
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X-2.7437
Y.0173
G3 X-2.7463 Y.0267 I-.0188 J0.
G1 X-2.765 Y.0592
G0 Z1.
X-2.347
Z.1
G1 Z-.118 F6.
X-2.3657 Y.0267 F16.
G3 X-2.3683 Y.0173 I.0162 J-.0094
G1 Y-.9236
X-2.3497
Y.0173
G3 X-2.3523 Y.0267 I-.0188 J0.
G1 X-2.371 Y.0592
G0 Z1.
X-1.953
Z.1
G1 Z-.118 F6.
X-1.9717 Y.0267 F16.
G3 X-1.9743 Y.0173 I.0162 J-.0094
G1 Y-.9236
X-1.9558
Y.0173
G3 X-1.9583 Y.0267 I-.0187 J0.
G1 X-1.977 Y.0592
G0 Z1.
X-1.559
Z.1
G1 Z-.118 F6.
X-1.5777 Y.0267 F16.
G3 X-1.5802 Y.0173 I.0162 J-.0094
G1 Y-.9236
X-1.5618
Y.0173
G3 X-1.5643 Y.0267 I-.0187 J0.
G1 X-1.583 Y.0592
G0 Z1.
X-1.165
Z.1
G1 Z-.118 F6.
X-1.1837 Y.0267 F16.
G3 X-1.1863 Y.0173 I.0162 J-.0094
G1 Y-.9236
X-1.1678
Y.0173
G3 X-1.1703 Y.0267 I-.0187 J0.
G1 X-1.189 Y.0592
G0 Z1.
X-.771
Z.1
G1 Z-.118 F6.
X-.7897 Y.0267 F16.
G3 X-.7923 Y.0173 I.0162 J-.0094
G1 Y-.9236
X-.7738
Y.0173
G3 X-.7763 Y.0267 I-.0187 J0.
G1 X-.795 Y.0592
G0 Z1.
X-.377
Z.1
G1 Z-.118 F6.
X-.3957 Y.0267 F16.
G3 X-.3982 Y.0173 I.0162 J-.0094
G1 Y-.9236
X-.3797
Y.0173
G3 X-.3823 Y.0267 I-.0188 J0.
G1 X-.401 Y.0592
G0 Z1.
M5 M9
G28 Z0.
M1
( 1/8 THK X .765 DIA KEY SEAT TOOL - 6 DIA. OFF. - 6 LEN. - 6 DIA - 0.765 )
T6 M6
G0 G90 S3000 M3 X.3561 Y-1.3211
H6 Z1. M8
Z.1
G1 Z-.362 F25.
X.1574 Y-1.2064 F15.
G3 X.1 Y-1.191 I-.0574 J-.0994
G1 X-5.9
G3 X-5.9574 Y-1.2064 I0. J-.1148
G1 X-6.1561 Y-1.3211
G0 Z.1
X.3561
G1 Z-.367 F25.
X.1574 Y-1.2064 F15.
G3 X.1 Y-1.191 I-.0574 J-.0994
G1 X-5.9
G3 X-5.9574 Y-1.2064 I0. J-.1148
G1 X-6.1561 Y-1.3211
G0 Z1.
Y.3211
Z.1
G1 Z-.362 F25.
X-5.9574 Y.2064 F15.
G3 X-5.9 Y.191 I.0574 J.0994
G1 X.1
G3 X.1574 Y.2064 I0. J.1148
G1 X.3561 Y.3211
G0 Z.1
X-6.1561
G1 Z-.367 F25.
X-5.9574 Y.2064 F15.
G3 X-5.9 Y.191 I.0574 J.0994
G1 X.1
G3 X.1574 Y.2064 I0. J.1148
G1 X.3561 Y.3211
G0 Z1.
M5 M9
G28 Z0.
M1
( 1/4 BALL ENDMILL TOOL - 4 DIA. OFF. - 4 LEN. - 4 DIA - 0.25 )
T4 M6
G0 G90 S2139 M3 X.2 Y-.5
H4 Z1. M8
Z.1
G1 Z.005 F6.42
X-6. Z-.01
X.2 Z-.025
X-6. Z-.04
X.2 Z-.055
X-6. Z-.07
X.2 Z-.085
X-6. Z-.1
X.2 Z-.115
X-6. Z-.13
X.2 Z-.145
X-6. Z-.16
X.2 Z-.175
X-6. Z-.19
X.2 Z-.205
X-6. Z-.22
X.2 Z-.235
X-6. Z-.25
X.2 Z-.265
X-.6267 Z-.267
X-6.
X.2
G0 Z1.
M5 M9
G28 Z0.
M1
( 0.76 SLOTTING TOOL OR SAW TOOL - 8 DIA. OFF. - 8 LEN. - 8 DIA - 0.76 )
T8 M6
G0 G90 S2000 M3 X.2545 Y-1.2996
H8 Z1. M8
Z.1
G1 Z-.126 F20.
X.057 Y-1.1856
G3 X0. Y-1.1703 I-.057 J-.0987
G1 X-5.8
G3 X-5.857 Y-1.1856 I0. J-.114
G1 X-6.0545 Y-1.2996
G0 Z.1
X.2545
G1 Z-.131
X.057 Y-1.1856
G3 X0. Y-1.1703 I-.057 J-.0987
G1 X-5.8
G3 X-5.857 Y-1.1856 I0. J-.114
G1 X-6.0545 Y-1.2996
G0 Z1.
Y.2996
Z.1
G1 Z-.126
X-5.857 Y.1856
G3 X-5.8 Y.1703 I.057 J.0987
G1 X0.
G3 X.057 Y.1856 I0. J.114
G1 X.2545 Y.2996
G0 Z.1
X-6.0545
G1 Z-.131
X-5.857 Y.1856
G3 X-5.8 Y.1703 I.057 J.0987
G1 X0.
G3 X.057 Y.1856 I0. J.114
G1 X.2545 Y.2996
G0 Z1.
X-6.1545 Y.3178
Z.1
G1 Z-.3622
X-5.957 Y.2038
G3 X-5.9 Y.1885 I.057 J.0987
G1 X.1
G3 X.157 Y.2038 I0. J.114
G1 X.3545 Y.3178
G0 Z.1
X-6.1545
G1 Z-.3672
X-5.957 Y.2038
G3 X-5.9 Y.1885 I.057 J.0987
G1 X.1
G3 X.157 Y.2038 I0. J.114
G1 X.3545 Y.3178
G0 Z1.
Y-1.3178
Z.1
G1 Z-.3622
X.157 Y-1.2038
G3 X.1 Y-1.1885 I-.057 J-.0987
G1 X-5.9
G3 X-5.957 Y-1.2038 I0. J-.114
G1 X-6.1545 Y-1.3178
G0 Z.1
X.3545
G1 Z-.3672
X.157 Y-1.2038
G3 X.1 Y-1.1885 I-.057 J-.0987
G1 X-5.9
G3 X-5.957 Y-1.2038 I0. J-.114
G1 X-6.1545 Y-1.3178
G0 Z1.
M5 M9
G28 Z0.
G28 X0. Y0.
M2
 
I am no expert as I am more prone to program by hand alot of what I do(less mill work) but if you can do these small things it helps proof it by eye faster first.

The software may allow you to change each rapid move to a different color, Each Tool change a different color...at the pc so you can review.
Move your S2000 M3 to a line by itself typically right after the tool change call out. Tool height callout where it is also kind of bothers me but to each his own.
Also can you change it so you use the typical arc move with just the radius call out...do you need I & J code for what you are making??

Ps- You can make your own changes if you can find the software's post file for your machine and what folder it was stuck to om your PC.
 
The 'drop' at the end of a cycle is not a Fadal thing. Unfortunately we run our Fadals in Format 1, but we do not get a drop at the conclusion of each cycle before a tool change.

If my Fanuc memory serves me correctly, you would normally have a G91 in the line that returns to 0 before a tool change followed in the next line by a G90 to return to absolute move. As it stands right now, I think the machine finishes a cycle at some Z height, then moves to the part 0 before moving to machine 0. Will have to let the Fanuc/Fadal pros comment further.

Fred
 
Here are a few changes on the drill sections. Drop those clearance planes and retract planes. I would speed up the drills.

Some of those pockets helical milling may work real better than plunging at F6.16 and side mill full depth. I taking a guess that your tool loads up fast.


O0000 ( PIC-RAIL_OP1 )
( CREATED ON 03-21-17 AT 5:33 PM )
( PIC-RAIL\PIC-RAIL.MCAM )
( PIC-RAIL_OP1.NC )
( MATERIAL - ALUMINUM INCH - 6061 )
G20
G0 G17 G40 G49 G80 G90 H0 E1 Z0
( 1/8 CENTERDRILL TOOL - 2 DIA. OFF. - 2 LEN. - 2 DIA - 0.125 )
T2 M6
G0 G90 S2500 M3 X-1.775 Y-.5
H2 Z.15 M8
G81 G98 X-1.775 Y-.5 Z-.168 R0.05 F3.
X-2.175
X-5.675
G80
M5 M9
G28 Z0.
M1
( NO. 49 DRILL TOOL - 3 DIA. OFF. - 3 LEN. - 3 DIA - 0.073 )
T3 M6
G0 G90 S10000 M3 X-1.775 Y-.5
H3 Z.15 M8
G83 G98 X-1.775 Y-.5 Z-.638 R-.15 Q.1 F10.
X-2.175
X-5.675
G80
M5 M9
G28 Z0.
M1
( 3/32 FLAT ENDMILL TOOL - 5 DIA. OFF. - 5 LEN. - 5 DIA - 0.218 )
T5 M6
G0 G90 S10000 M3 X-1.775 Y-.5
H5 Z1. M8
G83 G98 X-1.775 Y-.5 Z-.392 R0. Q.15 F20.
X-2.175
G80
X-5.675
G83 G98 X-5.675 Y-.5 Z-.297 R0.1 Q.06 F3.5
G80
M5 M9
G28 Z0.
M1
 
Done via Mastercam.
My max spindle speed is 7500 RPM but of course that is not what I want to run all day.

Why not? I understand it is an old machine, and maybe you aren't in it for profits... but if my machine will do 12k, I run at 12k when needed, which is what you need for small tools. Last production parts I ran used lots of 1/8" and .05" cutters. Machine lived at 12k rpm for much of the cycle time on those parts...
 
Why not? I understand it is an old machine, and maybe you aren't in it for profits... but if my machine will do 12k, I run at 12k when needed, which is what you need for small tools. Last production parts I ran used lots of 1/8" and .05" cutters. Machine lived at 12k rpm for much of the cycle time on those parts...

Trying to GET to profits, but also have to preserve the machine until I get there.
This run is only about 130 pieces which will last my retail side a couple of years.
In my experience it never seems to be a good idea to run any type of machinery at red-line all day if I want it to last.
May run the spindle faster once I am more familiar with the Fadal and the programs are smoother but for now I'm going to remain conservative.
 
Your feed rates are way off. Also when you spot drill (I assume you mean spot drill not center drill) you will want a pause/dwell in there.

Yes, spot drill.
3/32 EM should read 3/16.
What would you say are comfortable feed rates for these tools on a Fadal 15?
Current rates give a better than necessary burr free finish but make for a very slow cycle time.
 
G28 Z0 is not the same as G28 G91 Z0 and I think that might be the source of your drop.

With the G91, the move is an incremental move of 0 distance. Without the G91, and if the program was otherwise in G90 mode, the G28 Z0 is a command to move to absolute Z0 position (of the current work offset) and then to home. The axis command with G28 is the intermediate point on the way to home. Why an intermediate point? I'd say useful throwback to use on a lathe where you want to bring a bar out of a hole by taking a dogleg through Z0 before going to home.

As a precaution, put a G90 on the next line after this G28 so as not to accidentally put the control in incremental mode.
 
Last edited:
As other have said, speeds and feeds are low. I get a little dizzy reading G code without a picture and plan of the part I am making, but I think your depths of cut are too low and the number of passes used are too many.

I have some experience with Fadal and Mastercam and live near you. Give me a PM and maybe I can give you some help

Rick
 
Almost forty minute cycle time is killing me.
About thirty minutes of that are the multiple slots.
I do have a speeder head that could be employed while doing the repetitive slotting.
At 5K rpm spindle speed I would have 30K rpm cutter speed.
Not sure how much that would allow me to increase IPM or cut depth?
Never used the speeder before, does Mastercam have a feature to adjust for their use?

Hint posted above did get rid of the "Bounce", thanks!

Current code may be a little hesitant due to the writer not working with Fadal very much for several years.
He is probably also making some effort to protect the Fadal from the operator who is just learning to run it, me.

We did increase the speeds of some of the moves to 18 IPM and the part still machines just fine.
So it's better but still room for improvement as this small run will still take more than a week as currently programmed!
Bought this machine in the hope that it will run a lot faster than the old (Really old!) Matsuura 1000V.
 
Are you using format 2? The G8 command should be default in format 2 and it will reduce the time in a program with a lot of small moves. Check to see if it being used. It is not default in format 1 and needs to be added in the program.

What version of Mastercam?

The speeder may help, but you will give up rigidity and maybe the Fadal wouldn't be able to move as fast as it should to maintain proper chip load.

I see no reason you would need any changes to Mastercam for the speeder unless it was offset from the spindle center. Then you would need to use a different work offset or offset the geometry. As to the spindle speed you just need to remember what you are doing. Will the speeder work in the tool changer?

I am sure that that program can be made to run faster and more efficient but more information is needed.
 
Program has been edited and sped up.
7000 RPM for the slotting and faster IPM too.
Now down to twenty minutes cycle and no speeder head used.
Have a tech working on my lathe, will try to update this when he is finished.
 








 
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