Difficulty in switching CAM programs?

Knaz85 · Apr 17, 2014

Hello all,

6 months ago I received the opportunity to take a stab at programming for our 20 man shop. Best decision I have ever made! I love it and have picked it up very quickly. My boss/owner even recently purchased our first 5 axis machine which has been great.

My question is, how hard of a transition is one CAM software to another? I have no intention of leaving my employer but someday I do want to get out of my current state. It seems the majority of job postings I look at prefer Mastercam and we currently use OneCNC. I can't imagine it being very difficult to make the switch but seeing Mastercam blasted over and over definitely has me wondering.

Thanks,
Kurt

Dave Cross · Apr 17, 2014

Knaz85 said:
Hello all,

6 months ago I received the opportunity to take a stab at programming for our 20 man shop. Best decision I have ever made! I love it and have picked it up very quickly. My boss/owner even recently purchased our first 5 axis machine which has been great.

My question is, how hard of a transition is one CAM software to another? I have no intention of leaving my employer but someday I do want to get out of my current state. It seems the majority of job postings I look at prefer Mastercam and we currently use OneCNC. I can't imagine it being very difficult to make the switch but seeing Mastercam blasted over and over definitely has me wondering.

Thanks,
Kurt

I switched from Onecnc to Mastercam about 2 years ago. Mastercam is light years more advanced and capable then OneCNC. But it is exactly ten times less intuitive, and forget simple and easy post edits. I never had any training with OneCNC, and had only used Gibbs previously, it was very easy for me to learn new features of OneCNC.

Mastercam on the other hand has been much more difficult for me to learn then either OneCNC or Gibbs. I took a week of training and have been plugging away at it for a couple years and have a pretty good grasp on it now, but I wouldn't call it really simple.

I should mention that I use MC to ONLY program a HMC, and most of the time I have 10-100 parts on a tombstone with multiple planes and offsets, and this is where it gets more complicated and buggy in MC. If I was only programming one or two parts on a vmc I'd say MC would be quite a bit easier to learn and certainly more stable.

I have a feeling that the other newer cam systems are really going to end up leaving MC in the dust over the next 5 years.

Dan B · Apr 18, 2014

We have hired a number of people who came in with PowerMill experience. They were able to learn and use WorkNC within days. I don't think, for someone experienced in CAM, that switching products is that big of a challenge. Interestingly, every one of them commented on how much more they liked WorkNC. I would hope that if you do switch, it will end up being a positive experience like our guys had. I've seen the frustration of going from a great CAM product to a mediocre one on our mill/turn machine. It's depressing.

Dan

Knaz85 · Apr 18, 2014

Thank you both for the positive replies. Although I know I far from being a great programmer with this CAM package I look forward to the day when I can sit down in front of Mastercam and see what it can do.

Today is the first day off I have had in 3 1/2 months and I find myself sitting back at the shop diving into a somewhat complicated 5 axis part. Besides being on a beach I can't think of anywhere else I would rather be. Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing ha.

Kurt

Atomkinder · Apr 18, 2014

At my first job I got to learn GibbsCAM 2012+ and I found it very intuitive and quick to get the hang of, having previously only used Surfcam 5.2 in the classroom, and conversational controls. Now I use Mastercam, and I am not a fan. I can see its underlying power, but the interface is stodgy, and I've been told that it continuously changes with every release without necessarily getting any better. I think its real value lies in production work where toolpaths can be tuned over time to really optimize cycle times and material removal rates, but for doing 1-2 parts at a time, I think it takes longer than it should to program. Some of the toolpaths are great, but require a good amount of insight before understanding really sets in.

That said, the basics are quick enough to get the hang of, and knowing more than one CAM package is never a bad thing. I believe that multiple experiences give one more insight as to how they want to set up a job, or multiple jobs, so if you have an opportunity to learn, go for it. Mastercam IS one of the most used tools in this trade, for better or worse.

For the record, I'm only using it for 3-axis mill operations, but we do a fair amount of surfacing, and lots of toe clamps to avoid.

John Welden · Apr 18, 2014

Yeah, Mastercam is old school dog shit.

allloutmx · Apr 19, 2014

Dont let this ^^^ guy fool you... Everyone knows mastercam is the best.

Says right on the box... When second best wont cut it.

vtpros.net · Apr 19, 2014

Knaz85 said:
Hello all,

6 months ago I received the opportunity to take a stab at programming for our 20 man shop. Best decision I have ever made! I love it and have picked it up very quickly. My boss/owner even recently purchased our first 5 axis machine which has been great.

My question is, how hard of a transition is one CAM software to another? I have no intention of leaving my employer but someday I do want to get out of my current state. It seems the majority of job postings I look at prefer Mastercam and we currently use OneCNC. I can't imagine it being very difficult to make the switch but seeing Mastercam blasted over and over definitely has me wondering.

Thanks,
Kurt

if you're going from onecnc to mc, It's definitely going to take some work but it's well worth it, MC is way ahead of onecnc and most cam software. There are alot of haters out there but it's more their lack of not being able to understand advanced machining. People seem to like the software that is easiest to learn which is understandable but you get what you pay for. MC and NX cam are top of the list of recommendations, then comes solidcam and topsolid. But for 5 axis, def. stick with MC or NX CAM (if they can afford it)

gkoenig · Apr 20, 2014

vtpros.net said:
But for 5 axis, def. stick with MC or NX CAM (if they can afford it)

If you have roomful of modern CNC machines, the relative cost difference between *any* CAM package is essentially zero.

gregormarwick · Apr 20, 2014

vtpros.net said:
if you're going from onecnc to mc, It's definitely going to take some work but it's well worth it, MC is way ahead of onecnc and most cam software. There are alot of haters out there but it's more their lack of not being able to understand advanced machining. People seem to like the software that is easiest to learn which is understandable but you get what you pay for. MC and NX cam are top of the list of recommendations, then comes solidcam and topsolid. But for 5 axis, def. stick with MC or NX CAM (if they can afford it)

I don't have a horse in this race, but "There are alot of haters out there but it's more their lack of not being able to understand advanced machining" is incredibly condescending. I'd put good money that most of us that post in this sub know exactly what we are doing and in all likelihood have a deeper understanding of "advanced machining" than some guy who's presence on this forum exists solely to peddle training DVD's.

I don't think anyone will disagree with you that MC is more powerful than OneCNC or HSMWorks, but to claim that it's "way ahead" of "most cam software" suggests that you have an incredibly narrow field of vision here. At best, it's comparable, feature for feature, to it's mid-range co-runners.

Ludasmith · Apr 20, 2014

Mastercam is supposed to have big changes in X8. It makes some sense to me but I feel like it's 10 years behind.

Creo feels 10 years behind also. But a better 10 years behind.

vtpros.net · Apr 20, 2014

gregormarwick said:
I don't have a horse in this race, but "There are alot of haters out there but it's more their lack of not being able to understand advanced machining" is incredibly condescending. I'd put good money that most of us that post in this sub know exactly what we are doing and in all likelihood have a deeper understanding of "advanced machining" than some guy who's presence on this forum exists solely to peddle training DVD's.

I don't think anyone will disagree with you that MC is more powerful than OneCNC or HSMWorks, but to claim that it's "way ahead" of "most cam software" suggests that you have an incredibly narrow field of vision here. At best, it's comparable, feature for feature, to it's mid-range co-runners.

i love how some jump right away on my business when i'm trying to give an educated opinion here. Your assumptions of what i'm doing on this forum shows ur narrow minded thinking before i could even take your opinion seriously in any form. It clearly shows that you're one of the MC haters and just trying to defend yourself since i hit a nerve with what i said. No one is saying all people who hate on MC are that way but from my experience most are. Those who were open minded enough, i was able to help teach them correct methods of using the software, believe me or not i've met programmers who claimed to be experts in MC who been using the slow and harder methods of programming in it. It's not their fault, they just learned it the wrong way.

I wouldn't even mention NX CAM or topsolid in my opinion if i didn't know about them as well, and btw i don't teach neither so please leave your opinion about my intentions aside because all i'm trying to do is help a fellow member choose the right software. with experience in over 12 CAM software, i can easily say that MC is ahead of most of them because there are only few who are more powerful and NX CAM being one of them. you are welcome to your own opinion but mine comes with alot of experience, not an ignorant comment from a software hater. learn most of the CAM software before you can claim what is really best or worst

John Welden · Apr 20, 2014

vtpros.net said:
believe me or not i've met programmers who claimed to be experts in MC who been using the slow and harder methods of programming in it. It's not their fault, they just learned it the wrong way.

Oh, I believe you 100% since MC is poorly designed.

We all know you promote MC since it's how you make some money selling your DVD's or whatever crap. If you were selling Surfcam DVD's, you'd say Surfcam was THE BEST :rolleyes5:

gkoenig · Apr 20, 2014

vtpros.net said:
i love how some jump right away on my business when i'm trying to give an educated opinion here. Your assumptions of what i'm doing on this forum shows ur narrow minded thinking before i could even take your opinion seriously in any form. It clearly shows that you're one of the MC haters and just trying to defend yourself since i hit a nerve with what i said. No one is saying all people who hate on MC are that way but from my experience most are. Those who were open minded enough, i was able to help teach them correct methods of using the software, believe me or not i've met programmers who claimed to be experts in MC who been using the slow and harder methods of programming in it. It's not their fault, they just learned it the wrong way.

I wouldn't even mention NX CAM or topsolid in my opinion if i didn't know about them as well, and btw i don't teach neither so please leave your opinion about my intentions aside because all i'm trying to do is help a fellow member choose the right software. with experience in over 12 CAM software, i can easily say that MC is ahead of most of them because there are only few who are more powerful and NX CAM being one of them. you are welcome to your own opinion but mine comes with alot of experience, not an ignorant comment from a software hater. learn most of the CAM software before you can claim what is really best or worst

First off - I think it's a bit of a stretch to call yourself an "expert." Until you are using software in-production, for money, on real CNC machines, making real parts - you aren't really using any of this gear as intended. There is a big difference between dicking around with your own solids and figuring out how to lay-down tool path in CAM software, and actually having random parts walk through the door and having to churn them out in a way that makes a profit.

Second - you are also vested in MasterCam's bullshit complexity. In fact, if MasterCam got their asses in gear and did a complete UI rewrite like they should, you wouldn't have anywhere near as much business helping people struggle through MC's shit interface.

At least NX CAD/CAM package can (somewhat) justify their complex interface in the fact that it offers more power and rock-solid reliability than anything else on the market. MasterCam's crap interface is simply the result of a lack of investment on the part of developers to do the painful work of bringing out a UI to modern standards.

gregormarwick · Apr 20, 2014

vtpros.net said:
It clearly shows that you're one of the MC haters and just trying to defend yourself since i hit a nerve with what i said.

I have a cam system (not mastercam) that works well for me, and mastercam invokes no strong feelings in me, good, bad or otherwise. Hence why I said I had no horse in this race. Calling me a "hater" is laughable and honestly, it makes you sound like a 12 year old girl.

I was calling you out on your bullshit assertion that the reason people dislike mastercam is that they don't know how to use it. Such a claim is incredibly insulting to the guys are familiar with it and have posted their opinions of it.

Certainly seems that I hit a nerve with you though...

vtpros.net · Apr 20, 2014

gregormarwick said:
I have a cam system (not mastercam) that works well for me, and mastercam invokes no strong feelings in me, good, bad or otherwise. Hence why I said I had no horse in this race. Calling me a "hater" is laughable and honestly, it makes you sound like a 12 year old girl.

I was calling you out on your bullshit assertion that the reason people dislike mastercam is that they don't know how to use it. Such a claim is incredibly insulting to the guys are familiar with it and have posted their opinions of it.

Certainly seems that I hit a nerve with you though...

if hitting a nerve you mean laughing at your jokes, it certainly did. My opinion is based on experience with those people not just a random nonsense opinion like yours, you don't know the software and you are talking shit about it based on what other's opinion. That in itself shows how completely irrelevant anything you say is. Go voice an opinion about something you have experience with. That might be a bit more useful and less bullshit

rlockwood · Apr 21, 2014

John Welden said:
Oh, I believe you 100% since MC is poorly designed.

We all know you promote MC since it's how you make some money selling your DVD's or whatever crap. If you were selling Surfcam DVD's, you'd say Surfcam was THE BEST

Yep, HSMWorks is unquestionably superior.

Wait wrong thread.. Eh, still fits..

m98custom1212 · Apr 21, 2014

vtpros.net said:
Go voice an opinion about something you have experience with. That might be a bit more useful and less bullshit

Ok. I have experience used Master cam for 4 semesters (roughly two years) then 30 day Test for work because we needed cam system. It sucked then its sucks now.

1.The GUI is horrible
2. Some tool paths take way to long.
3. Expensive ( I could get NX for the price of mastercam which I did)
4. You sell Mastercam Videos

I don't see Al coming in here claiming Bobcad is the shit! IT'S SUPER AWESOME!

len_1962 · Apr 21, 2014

John Welden said:
Surfcam was THE BEST

at least better than master, 1989's UI and all.

Hertz · Apr 21, 2014

rlockwood said:
Yep, HSMWorks is unquestionably superior.

Wait wrong thread.. Eh, still fits..

lol, I was thinking the same thing. You guys need to let it go already.

Difficulty in switching CAM programs?

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