Feature Recognition / CAM automation

Has anyone got any experience of feature recognition and cam automation?

I'm particularly interested in NX and Esprits capabilities as they seem the most advanced.

I already do some in HSMworks using templates for common tasks but I'm thinking more like it selecting every hole, counterbore and countersink and machining it without having to select the features individually.

How far can it go ? What does something like Protolabs use ? Did they develop that themselves or is it sitting on top of a CAM api somewhere ?

This video Feature Based Machining: Introduction - Siemens PLM Community - 9 from Siemens seems to make it look pretty full featured and easy but I haven't seen anyones using it , possibly because it is most of use to manufacturers who don't tell the world their secrets but could also be a massive pain to implement!

Esprit works very well with this. Once you've recognized the features you can even distinguish the type and apply certain procedures. After using an optimized install of Esprit you'll wonder why people use anything else.

alexdobbie,

Can't quite tell from your post...are you asking about feature recognition and cam exclusively with respect to NX and Esprits or are you looking for all systems that have this type of functionality?

Fred

Freds- Not looking particularly at those 2, they're just the ones that I see the most often reffered to when doing this, what other programs are there out there that do this ? I've discounted FeatureCam only because I'm not convinced about the subscription only model.

goooose - Do you mean it can recognise the feature and put in a machining strategy without interaction ? How far have you implemented it ? How much work was it to implement ?

I suppose I'm looking to see where the state of the art is and to see where the current break point is i.e. what can be implemented without it becoming a mamoth task (I don't need that last 20% if it takes 80% of the time!)

alexdobbie,

Thanks for clarifying. I understand the concerns regarding perpetual license vs. subscription and wanted to know before commenting on Featurecam. We (two of us here in R&D/custom/short run production) have extensive history with feature recognition starting with CamWorks (integrates with SW), then Featurecam followed by Delcam for Solidworks (essentially Featurecam integrated with SW - software now retired by Delcam/Autodesk).

We liked Featurecam and would still be using it but for other issues not related to rent vs. buy. I can expand on our likes and dislikes if you want. Our experience with NX is 1) very capable and 2) expensive (expensive being a relative term both for initial purchase and maintenance) 3) quite a learning curve, but well worth it in long run.

We have no experience with Esprit. But would suggest, for completeness that you look at TopSolid (investment comparable with NX). Since you are using HSMWorks, assume you are using Solidworks and might want to look at CamWorks (been a while since we worked with it - generates a lot of love/hate reactions), and possibly Solidcam.

One general remark about feature recognition - works great in integrated systems for holes. In Featurecam (with proper translators) it can recognize all types of holes, pull the appropriate tooling, assign feeds and speeds - pretty much done with little or no intervention. However, features like pockets, bosses, contours, etc are a different matter. We much preferred to let feature recognition take care of the holes, and use interactive recognition (pick the chains or faces and let software assign tools/feeds/speeds)for all other features. It may be the case that NX and the like are currently more sophisticated at handling these sorts of features.

HSMWorks has for years threatened to come out with a 'competent' hole wizard and tool/feed/speed database which would render moot much of this debate about feature recognition vs. process based (IMHO). But don't see any sign of it happening soon.

Will be very interested in your comments as you evaluate options and if you eventually purchase.

Fred

NX feature recognition is probably one of the most powerful in the market.... however you know what they say... with the most power comes the most responsibility.

There is a LOT of setup required to get it to work and I dont know of anyone but 2 HUGE companies actively using it. There are a lot of other things you can do to speed up programming that are a lot easier to manage.
1. Good tool libraries
2. Good library of template parts with set operations you always use
3. Program parts using geometry objects that the operations just use for toolpaths instead of selecting the geometry in every operation.
This allows you to program one part, bring a new part and just reselect geometry in 1 place instead of 100s of operations.

alexdobbie said:

goooose - Do you mean it can recognise the feature and put in a machining strategy without interaction ? How far have you implemented it ? How much work was it to implement ?

I suppose I'm looking to see where the state of the art is and to see where the current break point is i.e. what can be implemented without it becoming a mamoth task (I don't need that last 20% if it takes 80% of the time!)

Click to expand...

Yes. I click 1 button to recognize all features, one more button click to apply machining processes, and done. This doesn't work 100% on every part, as you could imagine that would be next to impossible for us mere mortal machinists. However, 95% of the time all my holes are done...this includes from all sides/setups...and tricky pockets are still only minimal clicks. The key to automation is feature based machining, not toolpath based. I was very disappointed that HSMWorks/Fusion360 went with the toolpath based method, I think they really missed becoming something great there. I guess toolpath based is easier to wrap your head around especially when it comes to sorting but to truly automate, feature based is needed.

Time wise, lets first keep in mind that with the automation I have I can do what would typically be a 3hr programming job and have it complete in 15min. Yes that took some work but you don't have to do it all in one sitting. Day after day you add to your automation and before you know it your parts are taking half as long to program. It is an investment and it will take some additional time upfront...but you make fixtures for your machines too right?

...ps, yes you could do what I explained above with no interaction. A simple merge event and the program could recognize features and apply processes on its own, with no button clicks on your part. I just prefer some human interaction in there for those times when things don't go as expected.

goooose said:

After using an optimized install of Esprit you'll wonder why people use anything else.

Click to expand...

I'll 2nd this. I've put quite a bit of work into customizing my Knowledgebase (Feeds/Speeds, Tool Library, Default Technology settings, etc.) and it makes Esprit a real joy to use. There are many ways of using automation in Esprit, it's just a matter of deciding what works best for you.

dstryr said:

3. Program parts using geometry objects that the operations just use for toolpaths instead of selecting the geometry in every operation.
This allows you to program one part, bring a new part and just reselect geometry in 1 place instead of 100s of operations.

Click to expand...

Already got some pretty good tool libraries I think, the number of people I see creating new tools each time they program though ...

The above quote really interests me, is that an NX specific thing ? Could you explain it a bit more ?

I got some more information on the NX feature recognition, it looks absolutely amazing, like I'm out of a job amazing but it would require months of full time learning to get it to that point.

goooose said:

However, 95% of the time all my holes are done...this includes from all sides/setups...and tricky pockets are still only minimal clicks.

Click to expand...

Do you have to define any working planes or addition set ups to get this to work ? ( assuming what you mean is it will do 3+2 work on multiple faces in one session )

my experience cad model does not give information on gd&t tolerances and feature recognition needs a lot of setup done on tools and tool holder you want to use not be told you need to use certain tools by software
.
also need setup the cam software for your work holding method and machine.
.
usually poor practice to trust cad model. if drawing say make 6.000 +.005/-.000 you go by dimension given regardless what cad model might have been made too

alexdobbie said:

Do you have to define any working planes or addition set ups to get this to work ? ( assuming what you mean is it will do 3+2 work on multiple faces in one session )

Click to expand...

You can get the software to do whatever it is you need. Sure, 3+2 or individual setups can be done. Just keep in mind, as with all automation, the last 20% is the hardest. Automating that first 80% is really quite easy and everyone should be doing it.

To the above comment about GDnT....there are a few different ways to deal with those situations and it will depend on if the models are done in house or not as to how to address them. Regardless, using any sort of automation you will at least have the operations completed for you and all you are left to do is manage the finish passes stock....you're still well ahead of the game as opposed to doing nothing.