FeatureCam price?

HI, I'm planning to get some licenses of featurecam for my workshop, does anyone know and average price of this product?
also would you recommend that or mastercam?, any noticeable differences?

Huge differences AFAIK.

Hopefully someone else chimes in, but I'm fairly certain that Featurecam (following its namesake) requires features to be created before actual toolpaths. Like CAMWorks or Edgecam.

Mastercam works from direct geometry. Definitely my personal preference, although I use HSMWorks.

I really don't know what you're trying to say there Atom

FC will work from either solids, surfaces, 2D or 3D geometry ...
You use the solids, surfaces etc to create curves, and then turn the curves into toolpaths ( Features )....
Once the curve and then the toolpath is created, you can modify, move, or delete even the underlying geometry, and yet, your toolpath remains
as it was because it's based off of a curve ( actually you can use plain jane geometry as well but ....

What's cool about this you may ask?
Well, you can just cut/paste a "feature" from another setup or another file or from a template, redefine the underlying curve and bang, you've just created
a brand new feature that inherits everything from the original, except it will be in a new location and of a completely different shape.
Slick as snot.

Now to the OP, that is a difficult question.
Plain mill with feature recognition used to be in the 'hood of $4-5K - ish.
3D has different levels, ranging from 2K to 6K depending on what you need.

All that however is now or soon to be out the window as FeatureCAM ( now AutoDesk product ) will be an annual subscription-only.

Unless someone is in the "know", I don't think the actual annual figures have been published yet for the various packages.

SeymourDumore said:

I really don't know what you're trying to say there Atom

FC will work from either solids, surfaces, 2D or 3D geometry ...
You use the solids, surfaces etc to create curves, and then turn the curves into toolpaths ( Features )....
Once the curve and then the toolpath is created, you can modify, move, or delete even the underlying geometry, and yet, your toolpath remains
as it was because it's based off of a curve ( actually you can use plain jane geometry as well but ....

What's cool about this you may ask?
Well, you can just cut/paste a "feature" from another setup or another file or from a template, redefine the underlying curve and bang, you've just created
a brand new feature that inherits everything from the original, except it will be in a new location and of a completely different shape.
Slick as snot.

Now to the OP, that is a difficult question.
Plain mill with feature recognition used to be in the 'hood of $4-5K - ish.
3D has different levels, ranging from 2K to 6K depending on what you need.

All that however is now or soon to be out the window as FeatureCAM ( now AutoDesk product ) will be an annual subscription-only.

Unless someone is in the "know", I don't think the actual annual figures have been published yet for the various packages.

Click to expand...

You are correct on all counts Seymour!
I will add a little bit to help the masses understand the difference between how tool-path is driven between the two.
In MasterCAM, you "chain" your geometry to create tool-path. In FeatureCAM, you create "curves".
This curve creating is essentially the same as chaining in M-CAM. But better. Not only is it easier, and quicker. It is far more versatile. You don't need solids. I have made some pretty dang complex stuff in F-CAM with simple geometry. But, if you have a solid, it's just that much faster.
And if you are savvy with using different layers (think levels in M-CAM) you can keep a very organized, easy to look at, part file.

Drawing (geometry creation) in F-CAM is way-way-way easier/faster. F-CAM in general is way faster.

M-CAM can give more infinite control over the actual tool-path. And, fine tuning that control is a little easier.
One of the biggest pluses M-CAM has over F-CAM? The tool-crib! F-CAM does some really stupid shit with their cribs.

Having used both, my opinion is: in a shop that does a lot of "new" parts, F-CAM is the way to go. Simply because it is faster.
Run a lot of production? Big volumes where every second of cycle time counts. Even if you have to spend more time at the software tweaking?
M-CAM will let you tweak precious seconds out way easier than F-CAM.

Price? I don't know these days.
I am up to about $14k. And, historically my maintenance has been a fuzz over $1500/yr. But, I have full 3-D, 4th-axis, and turning. They don't give that great of a discount on a second seat either.
They do have two different levels of 3-D. Full 3-D, and 3-D "light". The light will do basic stuff. But it is pretty limited.
I ran a trial of light for a couple weeks. And, quickly determined, I needed the full option.

Seymour is again correct though, they are going subscription based very soon, if not already have. Not sure.
Older perpetual licenses are grandfathered in, from what they explained to me. As long as I keep maintenance current.

Edit: I just thought of one other HUGE benefit of F-CAM. Running the same thing across multiple vises? Or fixture stations?
F-CAM handles this with a "multiple fixture document". And this process is soo far ahead of M-CAM's technique, its not even funny.

wheelieking71 said:

You are correct on all counts Seymour!
I will add a little bit to help the masses understand the difference between how tool-path is driven between the two.
In MasterCAM, you "chain" your geometry to create tool-path. In FeatureCAM, you create "curves".
This curve creating is essentially the same as chaining in M-CAM. But better. Not only is it easier, and quicker. It is far more versatile. You don't need solids. I have made some pretty dang complex stuff in F-CAM with simple geometry. But, if you have a solid, it's just that much faster.
And if you are savvy with using different layers (think levels in M-CAM) you can keep a very organized, easy to look at, part file.

Drawing (geometry creation) in F-CAM is way-way-way easier/faster. F-CAM in general is way faster.

M-CAM can give more infinite control over the actual tool-path. And, fine tuning that control is a little easier.
One of the biggest pluses M-CAM has over F-CAM? The tool-crib! F-CAM does some really stupid shit with their cribs.

Having used both, my opinion is: in a shop that does a lot of "new" parts, F-CAM is the way to go. Simply because it is faster.
Run a lot of production? Big volumes where every second of cycle time counts. Even if you have to spend more time at the software tweaking?
M-CAM will let you tweak precious seconds out way easier than F-CAM.

Price? I don't know these days.
I am up to about $14k. And, historically my maintenance has been a fuzz over $1500/yr. But, I have full 3-D, 4th-axis, and turning. They don't give that great of a discount on a second seat either.
They do have two different levels of 3-D. Full 3-D, and 3-D "light". The light will do basic stuff. But it is pretty limited.
I ran a trial of light for a couple weeks. And, quickly determined, I needed the full option.

Seymour is again correct though, they are going subscription based very soon, if not already have. Not sure.
Older perpetual licenses are grandfathered in, from what they explained to me. As long as I keep maintenance current.

Edit: I just thought of one other HUGE benefit of F-CAM. Running the same thing across multiple vises? Or fixture stations?
F-CAM handles this with a "multiple fixture document". And this process is soo far ahead of M-CAM's technique, its not even funny.

Click to expand...

Wheelie, I follow your posts because I respect what you have to say on most things. So don't take this as an attack as I have asked this kind of thing before. I don't know how much easier Featurecam can be in posting multiple work offsets/parts? In Mastercam it is transform toolpath (hang on, opening part so I can do it and see exactly...). Ok so opened a part that I previously programmed, will count the clicks I need to do for reference.
1) click on toolpath group 1 (selects all toolpaths in that group)
2) click toolpaths>transform (could shorten one click if I were to make an icon for the transform toolpath)
2b) to note, by my default settings, which are user configurable, the transform toolpath comes up with my operations selected (which I did in step 1), type set to translate, method set to operation type, work offset numbering set to off.
3) select options such as rectangular (most often used IMO), number of instances, and a pattern if needed.
3b) in my sample I did I changed 5 input fields - changing number of transforms, X distance, Y distance, work offset numbering, and operation order

Now I get if you are not familiar with the options it might sound like alot, but for my most often used scenario at the current job, almost everything comes in at the default so I change about 4-6 variables. Now to be perfectly honest here, I could set my default transform toolpath to reflect all the changes I made, meaning I could select transform toolpath and be done, BUT, I am surely not always going to run 4 parts for example. Probably the most important, biggest, point I need to make about this is - SET YOUR DEFAULTS!! Probably the biggest time sink, not just in Mastercam but every software, is

A) user does not learn it properly (been beat to death I know)
B) user never bothers to configure software to best suit their needs

Now I will say, if you are trying to squeeze seconds off your cycle time, the translate toolpath has to be used a little differently. I.E. takes alot more time to insert at key spots in your programmed toolpaths. Also, the transform toolpath can be used for rotation too, so if are doing rotary parts with repeating features it is very handy.

The example I somewhat explained was basically taking a fully programmed part and translating it to another work offset. It can also be used to translate identical features in a part. I am running parts like that now. I programmed one feature, then used the transform to copy it multiple times. I am not trying to beat up featurecam as I have never used it, downloaded the free trial a while ago but got busy and never got a chance to do anything but play with it.

Oh yeah, you said you have 14k in it so far, does that include all the years of maint you have paid, or was that to buy the initial package? I got a quote for MCX recently and it was 12k for 3 axis ONLY!!

Featurecam (FC) may have one other advantage depending on your approach to CAM software. We consider the ease of post processor editing and post availability to be important elements of any CAM software we evaluate. The Xbuild post editing system in FC is very easy to use and is well documented. It has also been the case (historically) the a large number of posts are supplied with FC; the only additional investments have been for complex mill/turn and multispindle/multiturret lathe posts.

I said the above 'may' be an advantage as I'm not familiar with Mastercam's most recent offerings with respect to post editing and availability. But, once again, based on past experience, this would be a plus for FC. Possibly Wheelie, Seymour or others can comment further.

Fred

Hello.

We got a quote on Featurecam that was about 12-13k. This was for a Y 2 spindle lathe. The package included some surfacing but not all of it. FYI If you do go with featurecam please keep in mind that there is a switch coming to full subscription. IE you would not be able to buy a perpetual licence soon. We ended up getting Esprit because they are not owned by autodesk and because they are close to us.

Mike, the big difference between M-CAM, and F-CAM when it comes to multiple offsets/parts is:
F-CAM creates a whole new part-file. This sounds horrible probably. But, nothing could be farther from the truth.
It is actually more key-strokes in F-CAM:
FILE
NEW
MULTIPLE FIXTURE
OK
ADD(after you have selected your operation)
NEXT
NEXT (after you have selected your starting coordinate. It defaults @ G54)
fill in your locations/distances/repeat counts
FINISH

The beauty:
Not only does this only take about 30 seconds to get a functioning program. If you are just doing a simple repeat of one operation.
It does not clutter your original part-file. And:
You can add any set-up, from any part file you have open, in any order, in any location, all in one multiple fixture doc.
And, ordering tools and operations could not be easier. Simply drag/drop them in the order you want. Its cake!

Just last week, I was running a simple two operation part. OP1 in one vise, OP2 in another.
I also had some 4th-axis parts to run, that used basically the same tooling.
I was able to seamlessly create a program that blended all three operations together, in one program, even though the two parts were not even related.
This saved probably thousands of tool changes over the run of parts. So not only did it get the parts done quicker. It did it with a longer cycle-time,
which freed me up to do other things. How can a longer cycle time be quicker? Because the longer cycle time was still shorter than if I had run these jobs seperate.
And, it probably took me all of 5 minutes to create the program. With ZERO hand editing.

Also, like Fred mentioned: F-CAM post support is excellent! If you pay your maintenance! LOL
But, even if you dont, you can change just about anything you could want in "X-build".
I am not super fluent in it. I can stumble through some basic stuff, like reversing the rotation of a 4th.
For anything beyond the basics, I just call. Post support is still excellent. Application support? Not so much.

$14k was the buy in. No maint. However, I did not do it all at once. You can add as you go. I started out with 2.5D, added 3-D, and finally 2-X Turning.

I am not trying to sell anybody on FC. Believe me!
I have just as many complaints as I do praises.
Just trying to explain, and point out some of the major differences.

One thing I do not know:
I never worked with solids in MC. In FC you pull GEO from solids to create curves to drive tool-path (for 2.5D stuff).
It is very simple, and there are many curve extraction techniques.
But, basically, 8 very quick clicks, and in about 10 seconds you have all vertical wall geometry from any solid in one orientation.
Any solid! Got a crazy soid part with 10,000 holes in it, and want all those locations?
If your computer is fast, in about 10 seconds, you will have them.
I have no clue how this works in MC?

Mike1974 said:

[/B]

SET YOUR DEFAULTS!! Probably the biggest time sink, not just in Mastercam but every software

Click to expand...

Yea buddy! One of my FC gripes: I have a couple defaults, like to to "re-default".
One of the top of my head: "multiple roughing diameters" likes to turn itself on about once a week.
FC support tells me I am crazy, that is not possible. Whatever.......