Fusion360 or OneCNC for small shop?

After years of using Mazatrol at the machines, I now want to get into the 21st century with a good CAD/CAM program. My business is changing, and going forward I want the capability to design and machine my own products using solid modeling CAD.

After spending a bunch of time here on PM reading up on the subject, it seems there are obvious "high end" solutions, like Solidworks and Solidedge for cad, and NX and Mastercam for cam.

But, being a small shop, and not knowing exactly what my CAD/CAM needs will actually be going forward, are there any other budget-friendly solutions to consider besides Fusion360 and OncCNC?

TIA for your input.

ToolCat Greg

What kind of budge do you have?

Good question. Let's say $4,000 or so.
I realize Fusion360 is a cloud-based subscription service, and for $300 per year, that seems like a damn good deal.
I'm not sure how much OneCNC is these days, but seems like it was around $3500 a while back?
Oh, I'm not really looking at BobCad, because of all the negatives I've read about over the years.

OneCNC is balls for modeling. If you get OneCNC you'll still want something for CAD work. OneCNC is ok for programming though. Nothing spectacular or very bleeding edge (though it is a good, modern software package) it does the job.

I have to say that I have been very impressed with Fusion (if it hasn't been obvious from other posts I've made) and its breakneck development pace. The forums are very good for support, especially in CAM (where I spend most of my time in the forums). $300/year is for the "basic" version, and $1200 gets you Ultimate which has/will have mill/turn, 4- and 5-axis milling. If you just want 3-axis, the basic version will do you just fine. I have run several 3D parts at work on it because it's so much easier to use than CAMWorks, and we haven't bought HSMWorks yet.

If you decide to start a trial, I'd be glad to invite you to a couple projects that have actually been cut to see how it works.

I would reconsider about the BobCAD CAM software...


BobCAD-CAM

aldepoalo said:

I would reconsider about the BobCAD CAM software...


BobCAD-CAM

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Your website looks like an annoying sales ad that falls out of the newspaper telling me that sliced ham is on sale for $3.49/lb.

Here is my thought, If you can buy BobCAD CAM or even onecnc for X dollars. For that price you can learn and use the software for many years to come, why would you settle for a software product that you need to "rent" year after to year?

Don't get me wrong cloud base offers some great tools for connecting with clients and sharing ideas. Autodesk is a huge company, so they do bring a lot to the table. But one of the nice things you get when working with a privately owned company, like BobCAD CAM or even Onecnc is a personal touch, a one on one feel, and most of all flexibility with how business is conducted.

BobCAD CAM products have grown in leaps and bounds and depending on your experience level and what you're looking to accomplish it may be the perfect solution for you. Just saying don't count it.....

Did alot of research on this very subjective:

Fusion 360- Top choice and what I went with because it was $25 for year on black friday It's cheap and everyone is using it because of that model

Onshape w/ Solidcam (coming soon)

Solidworks is having subscription based CAD system launch after Solidworks World in the end of January You could go Solidworks + Hsmworks


Bobcad is pretty powerful now days and pretty good overall. I would use the software but wont give half ass working post before I buy.


ZW3D CAD/CAM was pretty good from my 30 day demo but some dont like because the Chinese own the software now.


Ironcad Invotate from makers of Ironcad is good but you would need cam


Geomagic- Decent for the price but getting more expensive every day now it seems like but you would need
cam software also


Inventor HSM- $310 a month for 2.5, 3D and 3+2 Machining plus inventor not bad deal.



Solidedge- $100 a month for assemblies and drawings but's look to one computer and pain in the ass to switch good old Siemens. Again need cam

Inventor- $100 ish a month plus Inventor HSM 2.5 axis if that fits your needs.

Had OneCNC, lost the dongle while between shop and home, and since they are going to make me buy new software, I tried Fusion.

OneCNC is way behind Fusion, period. Fusion has some glitches and I am not in love with all the cam stuff but I am going to be maybe 7 years before I pay for a new seat of OneCNC. CAD wise it is much better. Once I learn how to use the 'sculpt' function it will do way more than you can in OneCNC. It also does Heidenhain conversational code which is why I had onecnc in the first place

If you are really budget limited, you can pay by the month and stop when you have no projects[after downloading your data of course]

Basically you buy fusion for less than what some companies charge for maintenance.

Oh, and you can try it full function right now for 30 days.

you just missed the black friday sale.....25 bucks for the year...........

I think they are going to rid the world of many of these old school software companies.

JNieman said:

OneCNC is balls for modeling. If you get OneCNC you'll still want something for CAD work. OneCNC is ok for programming though. Nothing spectacular or very bleeding edge (though it is a good, modern software package) it does the job.

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Not sure what version you left off using OneCNC, it's ok for quick modeling in version 5 and 6. Simple enough for beginners to get used to what solid modeling is all about just with trial and error and a bit of work with the tutorials. I've never been stuck with building a model of anything I've been asked to produce in my shop, but I don't make free form or organic mold shapes with it.

It is a hybrid modeler, so this permits the use of solids or surfaces or combinations of the two, as well as doing quite a bit of machining just from line drawings, if that is all you require. It doesn't really do much of anything with STL meshes, if that happened to be a consideration. You do need the latest version if you want to stay current with file translators so you can import external files.

I like having the CAD and CAM together in one package, I cannot imagine having to shuffle a model file back and forth between two programs, and the need to draw a bit here and there during CAM is quite frequent.

Fusion by a mile..

We are running with inventor for cad and fusion for cam. Ive only use gibbscam in the best before fusion and for me fusion qaa qay easier to get and is more intuitive than gibbs. Maybe the fact that ive use invortor for a while before goin for fusion also help me.

Ive been doing alot of hsm toolpath and 3d path that work like a charm after only a couple od minute programming the part.

aldepoalo said:

Here is my thought, If you can buy BobCAD CAM or even onecnc for X dollars. For that price you can learn and use the software for many years to come, why would you settle for a software product that you need to "rent" year after to year?

Don't get me wrong cloud base offers some great tools for connecting with clients and sharing ideas. Autodesk is a huge company, so they do bring a lot to the table. But one of the nice things you get when working with a privately owned company, like BobCAD CAM or even Onecnc is a personal touch, a one on one feel, and most of all flexibility with how business is conducted.

BobCAD CAM products have grown in leaps and bounds and depending on your experience level and what you're looking to accomplish it may be the perfect solution for you. Just saying don't count it.....

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You must be getting a kickback from BobCAD. I bought 18, 19, 20.5, and 22. 22 was the straw that broke the camel's back. I liked them up to that point, but literally could not get even the simplest 2.5D program to post, it was just a waste of time. I didn't spend MEGABUCKS on 22, but I spent enough that it left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I just got Fusion 360 and I'm really impressed. There are some definite bugs, like in one of the tutorials the endmills comes down and ramps through the top layer of the part, scarring it while making its way to a pocket.

The FEA is neat, but I got some REALLY unexpected (erroneous) results from modeling a bolted joint of 2 plates.

I've heard that the CAM is just HSMWorks embedded into Fusion, and it certainly does a lot of neat HSM toolpaths. You can event tweak them to eliminate the lost motion that's so prevalent in most HSM paths you see in videos (stay in cut instead of retract Z, move, plunge).

The one frustrating part about Fusion 360 is that much of the features are not actually documented, so when you search for answers it's a hodge podge of forums posts that have been imported into their knowledgebase. Thinks like "thread" in the solid model menu are not documented!

Once they get their docs up to snuff, so all of the menu items actually have a comprehensive entry in the help, then it'll be easier.

Many of the features have popup windows with graphics and explanations to help intuit what you need to do.

From what I understand, only the first year is free for "Startups", then the subsequent years cost money, that part wasn't totally clear when I signed up. But the cost is less than the annual BobCAD upgrade fee!

Perry Harrington said:

You must be getting a kickback from BobCAD.

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He WORKS for Bobcad.
Any time the word "bobcad" is typed on this forum, he shows up here giving his pitch.

I guess not many people know Onecnc is a cousin to Bobcad.
Some of the same engineers, spun off, whatever.
No one at Onecnc has anything good to say about BC.
Fusion seems like it's way advanced compared to Onecnc and light years ahead of BC.

I took a look at Fusion but noticed that it wasn't very good at working with imported data. I did a side by side comparison with Onshape and found that Onshape's import functionality was far superior. I just wanted to mention that. If you don't work with imported data then this won't be an issue.

I'll just throw one more possible solution into the mix. Rhino with madCAM. It falls well within the budget (unless you need simultaneous motion). We use it every day along with WorkNC to cover all our CAM needs.

Dan

Holy crap, Toolcat is getting away from his beloved Mazatrol!?

I don't have any advice to offer, just I have always seen you say how good mazatrol is I am surprised you posted this topic.

HuFlungDung said:

Not sure what version you left off using OneCNC, it's ok for quick modeling in version 5 and 6. Simple enough for beginners to get used to what solid modeling is all about just with trial and error and a bit of work with the tutorials. I've never been stuck with building a model of anything I've been asked to produce in my shop, but I don't make free form or organic mold shapes with it.

It is a hybrid modeler, so this permits the use of solids or surfaces or combinations of the two, as well as doing quite a bit of machining just from line drawings, if that is all you require. It doesn't really do much of anything with STL meshes, if that happened to be a consideration. You do need the latest version if you want to stay current with file translators so you can import external files.

I like having the CAD and CAM together in one package, I cannot imagine having to shuffle a model file back and forth between two programs, and the need to draw a bit here and there during CAM is quite frequent.

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ha. I left version XR4. Maybe it has gotten better. I could /do/ most of what I wanted, it was just terribly inefficient, time consuming, and wasn't comparable to modeling in any other 3D CAD package, even Autocad which, itself, is decades old in modeling mindset. If versions 5 and 6 are more like Solidworks or something, then cool. Otherwise, meh. I just found myself doing even simple 2.5d objects in Solidworks, then opening in OneCNC. Obviously the more complex 3d surfacing, or 4th axis parts were done in SW.. but I didn't even care for modeling up a simple motor mounting plate when I needed one. Went to Solidworks for that too, and it was a rounded rectangular pocket, through-hole, four c'bored motor-attach holes, and 4 slotted clearance holes for mounting bolts. Then a couple cutouts for weight savings. Not a big deal.

Maybe 5 & 6 is better.

just I have always seen you say how good mazatrol is I am surprised you posted this topic.

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Mazatrol is great for a lot of job shop machining, but it does have limitations, especially in complex milling. For 2-axis turning, and most live-tool lathe work, Mazatrol is hard to beat. Once your experienced with it, you can literally program lathe parts as fast as you can punch the program in. Even complex 2-axis parts can be programmed in minutes.

For 2.5-axis milling, Mazatrol is pretty powerful as well. Although as your part features get more numerous, so do your programming units, so you begin to lose efficiency with Mazatrol on the more complex milled parts.

So I would say for probably 75% of job shop turning and milling, Mazatrol is a fantastic programming system. A whole lot of machine shops were built using Mazatrol, and it's the primary reason Mazak became the largest machine tool builder - dollar wise. (Haas is largest for number of units sold.)

I have always programmed at the machine, and again, for a job shop that's not necessarily a bad thing. Why? Well, you're there at the machine, not only programming but finding and inputting tools, scrounging up a fixture/vice jaws, getting the job set up with what you have to work with.

Being out in the shop and at the machine can be an asset as you create your setup. Often your program will have to be modified based on what tools you have available, or how you're having to process and hold the part.

And once you start walking your program through and running parts, an experienced Mazatroler can tweak feeds and speeds and toolpaths to create a very efficient program, all the while running parts and getting the job done.

Of course Mazatrol will not do 3d surfacing, so if you want to do that then CAD/CAM is a must.

I want to be able to draw parts using solids, and create programs to machine these parts fast and reliable. I would use the CAM primarily for milled parts, as like I say, for turning Mazatrol is a great solution.

As of now I am leaning towards Fusion360, and look forward to playing with the software and increasing my shop's capabilities. In my region, most shops are not truly "CAD/CAM" capable, meaning they don't have the ability to quickly create a solid model and then a cnc program to produce the part. Having this capability can set me apart, and now with Fusion360, it's within reach and affordability of even the smallest cnc shop.

Thanks for all the replies!

ToolCat