GibbsCAM Volumill vs HSM Works Adaptive Clearing

RMS Machine · Apr 24, 2015

Can anyone explain the difference between these two strategies (if there are any)?

I was recently talking to a fellow shop owner about his Gibbs and he was telling me about all of the costs associated with it (well north of 20k plus all of the annual fees) plus he is looking at an upgrade to more capabilities.

I politely suggested that he look into getting Inventor LT and get HSM Express and have the same capabilities (for 2.5d) for about $1500 one time cost or $450 annually (right now that have a special on that) If he needed multi axis he could by the full HSM works for $10k, still way ahead of where he is now.

Plus he would have a great parametric modeling program with Inventor.

He brags about his Volumill and thought there was no way that a $1500 program could compare.

Was I wrong to suggest that?

Can what I suggested work?

Is he getting some value with Gibbs that I am not seeing that is worth the extra expense?

Thanks,
RMS Machine

Disclaimer: I have recently been able to get Inventor with HSM and am pretty impressed with what I am able to turn out, thus my suggestion.

TheCamMan · Apr 24, 2015

Instead of me trying to explain all the differences the link below is from a user of Volumill (in CamWorks) and his comparison to Adaptive.

https://solidedging.wordpress.com/2015/04/07/cutting-a-basic-part-in-inventor-hsm-pro-2015/

munruh · Apr 24, 2015

RMS Machine said:
Can anyone explain the difference between these two strategies (if there are any)?

I was recently talking to a fellow shop owner about his Gibbs and he was telling me about all of the costs associated with it (well north of 20k plus all of the annual fees) plus he is looking at an upgrade to more capabilities.

I politely suggested that he look into getting Inventor LT and get HSM Express and have the same capabilities (for 2.5d) for about $1500 one time cost or $450 annually (right now that have a special on that) If he needed multi axis he could by the full HSM works for $10k, still way ahead of where he is now.

Plus he would have a great parametric modeling program with Inventor.

He brags about his Volumill and thought there was no way that a $1500 program could compare.

Was I wrong to suggest that?

Can what I suggested work?

Is he getting some value with Gibbs that I am not seeing that is worth the extra expense?

Thanks,
RMS Machine

Disclaimer: I have recently been able to get Inventor with HSM and am pretty impressed with what I am able to turn out, thus my suggestion.

We are happy Gibbscam customers..........but I have to wonder about what you are asking. We have a lot of money invested in Gibbscam, it does seem to cost a lot. On the other hand, it is very quick for us to make programs on. We are a job shop that our customers often just email a print over not a model.

csharp · Apr 24, 2015

From what I heard the folks for Helical Endmills who have been supportors of Volumill and put the "VoluMill proven icons in their catalog were pretty impressed with the the adaptive tool paths.

Helical and Autodesk Collaborate

Atomkinder · Apr 24, 2015

On my phone so this won't be a long answer.

We have CamWorks with Volumill 2.5D and HSMXpress. The latter keeps the tool in the cut longer and is far more customizable, but Volumill simplifies the feed rate changes sometimes needed in tighter corners. I liked Gibbscam when last I used it, but if you have SolidWorks already, get HSMWorks. No contest.

JMC · Apr 24, 2015

Volumill vs Adaptive vs Dynamic vs brand X

=

Ford vs Chevy vs Toyoda vs Brand X

Its all about the operator/driver.

csharp · Apr 24, 2015

JMC said:
Volumill vs Adaptive vs Dynamic vs brand X

=

Ford vs Chevy vs Toyoda vs Brand X

Its all about the operator/driver.

and for some they are just he same. Only difference is the implementation. Notice HSMWorks in not on their partners page

Not sure how many cam companies own their own tool path algorithms vs how many just purchase the technology.

Partners who work with ModuleWorks CAD/CAM components
How to Buy | VoluMill?

John Welden · Apr 24, 2015

JMC said:
Its all about the operator/driver.

No, there are big differences between them.

RMS Machine · Apr 24, 2015

John Welden said:
No, there are big differences between them.

What type of differences and in which program's favor?

I have never had the opportunity to run Gibbs so I am not familiar on what differences there might be that would have a significant impact on performance/productivity in favor of either.

Thanks,
RMS Machine

JMC · Apr 24, 2015

John Welden said:
No, there are big differences between them.

Explain?

I have used Volumill with both mastercam (in its early days albeit) and with NX. I also used adaptive clearing with mastercam when it was (still is?) a Cimco addon. And I have also used mastercam's dynamic flavor. In my experience they all run very similar.

I believe Volumill still pays smurfcam royalties for duplicating their flavor.

Lapuser · Sep 28, 2016

This thread popped up in my email today and I want to respond.

"Ford vs Chevy vs Toyoda vs Brand X

Its all about the operator/driver."

A little over one year ago I had current seats of CAMWorks for Solid Edge with Volumill 3D and HSM with Adaptive 3D. Same VF4 same Helical end mills same part same material same feeds and speed. In other words an exact apples to apples comparison. Volumill lost every time and often by significant margins. Ford or Chevy or Brand x comparison? What gets you to the end of the drive fastest and with ease of driving and comfort along the way is the winner in my book. HSM Adaptive has a great big engine and a well tuned chassis and great easy to use steering. Volumill is kind of like your little Auntie's car which will also get you to the same places if time is not a concern. I know nothing about Gibbscam except they have licensed Volumill so evidently that is there best solution for high speed machining. HSM Adaptive is far superior and if you don't believe it try them both with current versions like I did and tell me what you find out.

The other aspect of HSM I find quite amusing compared to ZW3D, Surfcam and CAMWorks which are the only other programs I have used in my shop is how quickly CAM plans can be generated. That is time saved above and beyond what Adaptive produces on the mill. Win win except for the subscription only garbage with HSM now. You can try out 3D Adaptive in Fusion360 on the cheap and see what it does for a year for $300.00. That is plenty of rime to set up your own exacting field trials for deciding what is true regarding all the claims you read including mine. Seeing on your own setup is believing.

jerryzak · Sep 28, 2016

Same VF4 same Helical end mills same part same material same feeds and speed.[/QUOTE said:
I confess I only have experience with VoluMill but I wonder if the problem with comparing all that software was using the same feeds and speeds.
VoluMill speeds and feeds are crazy when you first use it and it takes a bit of getting use to. For example you should run 0.5" carbide in tool steel
at 9717 RPM and 245 IPM, up to 1.25" DOC.
Jerry

Atomkinder · Sep 28, 2016

jerryzak said:
I confess I only have experience with VoluMill but I wonder if the problem with comparing all that software was using the same feeds and speeds.
VoluMill speeds and feeds are crazy when you first use it and it takes a bit of getting use to. For example you should run 0.5" carbide in tool steel
at 9717 RPM and 245 IPM, up to 1.25" DOC.
Jerry

That's all HSM. The big difference I've seen is Volumill adjusts feed for changes in load, which means the chipload is not constant and the surface speed is incorrect during heavier cuts. Still much better than traditional roughing, but not ideal. There is much more of an ability to customize the Adaptive Clearing routines in HSM as well, at least vs Volumill 2.5D in CAMWorks.

Here's the HSMAdvisor calculation for A2.

Hazzert · Sep 28, 2016

There's been a big overhaul in 2016 in regard to volumill, in the past Gibbs would walk out to an edge in a square pocket and use that to step over every pass but in it's newest implementation it will spiral out similar to other CAM systems. Not saying the system is great but it's been reworked since some of you may have used it. Helical solutions has also moved their milling advisor into Gibbs itself giving you something like a G-Wizard/HSM Advisor lite interface. I'm waiting to take it for a drive on some commercial parts but redoing old operations has shown big tool path changes.

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