Leaving Autodesk? Where are you going and why?

I think it may be time to share where we are going and why. Choices have to be made and I trust actual users far more than resellers.

I left Solid Edge when I bought a seat of Inventor Pro HSM two+ years ago. I never liked Inventor and continued to used SE for my modeling. I did not however want to keep spending more money per year than I had to. So I let SE lapse never having any idea Autodesk was going to go extortionary on us. This coming December will see the end of my subscription and any money Autodesk will get from me. Here is where I am going and why.

I renewed with Solid Edge a couple of months ago because I have found through being a user from ST1 to now ST9 there is no other program that does direct editing as well. On both imported parts and native parts. The SW converts I talk to do not miss SW at all and remember fondly the days models would blow up all the time with SW. Sheet metal is considered the best in mid range MCAD. The logic of the workflow and the fewer clicks required right and left mouse button menus are much better than Inventor. Plus Siemens has no intent I can find to ever become subscription only. You can if you wish rent SE and you don't have to commit to a year to do so. The rental and seat versions save in the same formats so a few extra seats can be rented for overflow work when needed. In the future I trust SE to not fool around with how things are saved. I expect at some point in time Autodesk may well try linking subscription produced files with a limitation that will demand you open them in the future only with subscription software and those with perpetual seats just might be left high and dry. Hey the way things are going can you rule this out? I have very little experience with Solid Works and the few times I have tried it the logic of the program just never made sense to me like SE did right from the start.

Mastercam will be the next program I get for CAM if I need to do so. The company does not have any plans to sell out or try to force subscriptions on people as far as I can tell. Far more diverse than HSM for the numbers of processes covered and if I decide to ever do 4 or 5 axis far more capable. Tons of users for hire or mentoring and more than any other CAM program out there. They are improving at a pretty rapid rate right now wheres HSM is struggling and rests on past laurels and they are falling quickly behind. Turning in Mastercam, especially the interrupted cut turning is something I really need for stringy plastic parts. I don't expect to see this in HSM in the bext five or six year and by then I will retire. I know there are many CAM programs out there and how do you try them all to find the perfect answer? You don't and so you look at what those around you use and forum comments from users. Mastercam wins in this area and yes I know there are a ton of negative comments. However there are also a lot more people using it than any other and why? I never expect it to have the super efficient user interface that drew me to HSM but i can live with what I have seen.

What I most desire is stability and to trust the company is not going to jettison me for some investor group. And of course capabilities which SE and Mastercam have. It seems like many other well know CAM programs have been bought up or out or like Vero just thrown helter skelter together and after Autodesk I just don't want to have to deal with this kind of crap again. I believe neither Mastercam or Solid Edge demand you go online. I am guessing here with Mastercam but I can tell you for sure it is true with Solid Edge.

Going Mastercam for CAM is probably not a bad idea moving forward. As you mentioned they seem to be trying to up the anti and are improving at a much faster rate than years and versions past. As far as negatives with Mastercam, they are not great at eliminating bugs quickly, though show stoppers they seem to release fixes for quickly. As far as usability, the main thing most users struggle with is posts, if you don't know how to make safe edits to your posts for 75% of things you end up hand editing for, you aren't a fluent Mastercam user. I have found over the years the ability to debug and edits posts is the most important skill when finding a good programmer. There are few limitations, and if you can tackle that aspect you won't want to use another software. MP does not require knowing advanced programming techniques like some some packages do with java, so any old Joe can get up to speed pretty quick if they have a brain on their shoulders. That being said, many people complain that they can't get a post for their machine, expect if you can't write it yourself that you will need to shell out some extra dough to make the software worth while. Just like we do to buy cutting tools, no different. Just another tool in the cabinet that you happen to use every time you program a part.

my $.02

Why not get NX and enjoy the benefits of integration with SE??

Thanks for the reply guys. Please remember though that my primary interest is in actual Autodesk HSM subscribers leaving Autodesk, where they intend to go, and why they made their choice. There is a ton of stuff out there pros and cons but what appeals to other Autodesk HSM users in the same quandry I am in is of most interest.

SE by the way is not integrated with NX. Yes there is an icon on your tool bar in SE. What really happens though is that you import an SE .prt file into NX where it converts it to the NX design format and then NX Cam can use it. When I think of integrated it means the CAM program works natively inside the design program which NX Cam does not do with SE. I am assuming what you meant was design in SE and machine in NX

I was an HSMWorks user for approx 5 years. I dropped due to absolute lack of development in turning and the refusal of the support and product manages to answer any questions about turning. I actually loved the milling side of it for my simple parts. Not a lot of 3 axis for me. Mainly 2.5 and 4th positioning.

I first purchased the milling software and was so impressed that I assumed the turning would be the same, or at least at some point. I was given a license extension once and was offered one again but finally just refused. Could not see extending something with no support and poor quality. This was about a week before they announced the price increase for perpetual licenses. I kind of figured it was coming. However if support and the product would have been working good I probably would have just paid the price increase and rode it out for a couple more years.
I was fortunate in that I had a perpetual license of smartCAM to use for turning and I still have my perpetual license for HSMWorks.

I have looked at many and at this point can't say I like anything enough to purchase it. All the packages I have looked at don't even come close to the UI/UX of hsmworks. I want a cam system integrated into solidworks. From what I have been seeing/watching and hearing it would probably be masterCAM.

Mastercam is dongle locked in a single station or network configuration. Expiry dates are coded in to the dongle, IE no more updates for you from the internet. It will keep working however without updates. I am on X18 now, they have made some interesting changes but nothing compared to X9 to X17. I am a discover it when it matters type of learner, so all kinds of stuff could of, I just do not care about it yet. Solid editing and modeling is much better now then in X9. Even Mill Basic which is 2.5D stuff with a teaser of 3D tool paths has solid modeling build in.

I am waiting for coro library to become useful as it has auto importing to mastercam only has 60k tools in it yet. As we know sandvik has far more line items than that. As well as the Prime turning is suppose to be native module for it like HSM use to be a addon in other cam programs and now just standard equipment. Gibbs is good too, I just got mastercam for less then gibbs.

As of now it looks like MasterCAM / MasterCAM for SW for me. I've tried a couple. I agree with csharp - the few I've tried, including MC are lacking in the UI/UX for me. I am spoiled with HSM. But Autodesk can FOAD.

I am one of the unlucky ones who bought HSM when it was HSMWorks not owned by Autodesk. I've kept up my maintenance every year, even recent years after the purchase with basically nothing new. Holding on to hopes I guess. But now these arrogant dicks are going to try to take away my perpetual license for a subscription...$10k poof gone... Every email their cronies send me gets a reply back that I have no interest in "chatting" until you start offering me a refund for my stolen asset...until then, piss off, can't wait for the class action to begin.

Why is there no public domain or low cost shared project of decent quality in the cam world?
Not enough code slingers that are also machinists?
More fun to write silly games?
Bob

CarbideBob said:

Why is there no public domain or low cost shared project of decent quality in the cam world?
Not enough code slingers that are also machinists?
More fun to write silly games?
Bob

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Not a clue! I posted a price on 'another' site and they immediately edited the price out of my post. Machine shop nature - my price is VERY competitive

On the whole, CAD and CAM may be like accounting. The biggest (and even middle) customers don't want free. In fact, at least some of them don't want anything that doesn't come from a large vendor. Why? It was summed up this way "our board of directors won't let us use accounting software from a firm where we couldn't get something if we sued" - this was in the computing press a couple of decades ago - it likely still holds. You think Boeing wants any "free" software for work on airplanes? I don't know, but I'd imagine that what they want is software that (a) works and (b) has about a trillion dollar liability backing.... Shareware/freeware/open-source does not always play well in these environments. (This may have changed over the last 15 years...)

bryan_machine said:

You think Boeing wants any "free" software for work on airplanes? I don't know, but I'd imagine that what they want is software that (a) works and (b) has about a trillion dollar liability backing.... Shareware/freeware/open-source does not always play well in these environments. (This may have changed over the last 15 years...)

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Not talking about the 500 largest in the world. Yes they will not use such things and for very good reasons.
More about the who knows how many 5-50 man cnc shops around.
Bob

irobotix said:

As of now it looks like MasterCAM / MasterCAM for SW for me. I've tried a couple. I agree with csharp - the few I've tried, including MC are lacking in the UI/UX for me. I am spoiled with HSM. But Autodesk can FOAD.

I am one of the unlucky ones who bought HSM when it was HSMWorks not owned by Autodesk. I've kept up my maintenance every year, even recent years after the purchase with basically nothing new. Holding on to hopes I guess. But now these arrogant dicks are going to try to take away my perpetual license for a subscription...$10k poof gone... Every email their cronies send me gets a reply back that I have no interest in "chatting" until you start offering me a refund for my stolen asset...until then, piss off, can't wait for the class action to begin.

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LMAO, the old "do you want to chat?". The problem is that the software and support are the same after the chat as they were before.

Lapuser, not exactly AD HSM, but we still have 2 seats of Fusion 360, early adopter/Ultimate. I was hoping Fusion would evolve but it certainly isn't ready from my point of view. Needed something that works and preferably not through some stupid cloud.

You're right about integration, while NX isn't integrated, it is associative, which is fine with me. Design is in SE and machining in NX.

@carbidebob - from my limited view, many small shops do not seem to be that sophisticated when it comes to software - and for the great masses in life linux/freeware/sharware are pretty mysterious.

if you add the number of shops that either work from paper or 2d prints, AND the number of shops that run sw to read customer sw files, nx or ug for others, etc. not clear there is a workable market ....

Harri said:

Lapuser, not exactly AD HSM, but we still have 2 seats of Fusion 360, early adopter/Ultimate. I was hoping Fusion would evolve but it certainly isn't ready from my point of view. Needed something that works and preferably not through some stupid cloud.

You're right about integration, while NX isn't integrated, it is associative, which is fine with me. Design is in SE and machining in NX.

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Harri,
Do you have to sign confidentiality agreements with your customers? If so how do you secure your files with Fusion360 when it demands you go online to get license permissions and for every part edit and save? I hope you keep Fusion360 away from critical files and workstations because it will break your security.

What do you do with NX Cam? Some years back I was given a quote for almost everything which was bundled up in a package and it was a TON of stuff included for a bit over $15,000.00. I was amazed it was that cheap considering the prices of all the pieces separately. Maintenance was very high too at 20% plus if I remember right. I hear it is good but no one around here uses it for me to drop in and see what it does.

I am downloading NX trial tonight actually. They also have a cool looking offline robot programming deal too - gonna see whats up with that. Tried "SrputCAM" which had machining and a robot module. It was horrific.

bryan_machine said:

@carbidebob - from my limited view, many small shops do not seem to be that sophisticated when it comes to software - and for the great masses in life linux/freeware/sharware are pretty mysterious.

Click to expand...

The free software crowd is not interested in creating reliable, practical software. They are interested in changing toolkits, changing libraries, adding Tibetan to the list of "supported" languages, and otherwise stroking each others' peepees. Just look at the list of 60% complete, would-be useful software that has been sitting abandoned for ten years. Except for Apache and the Gimp, there's almost nothing in free software that's finished enough to be actually useful.

It was a nice idea but ....