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Needed: Advice on farming out my CAD/CAM

snowshooze

Hot Rolled
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Location
Anchorage, Alaska, USA
Hi guys, and thanks again for pitching in!
My current situation is I am financing a 4+1 axis ( 5X ) mill, and when I start throwing the number in, 150K for the mill, 14K for the trucking... and then 18 to 25K for software...
It is hitting my ceiling.
I am running Bobcad over here for all the machines I have, but it won't do the fancy stuff.
So... rather than go that $18 to $25K, possibly I could farm the programming out?
Would you believe that would even be a workable solution?
I don't know, I have never tried anything like that and of course...
my biggest concern is that it would be off-site. And somebody else.. somewhere's else
would be generating who-knows-what. And of course... there are always revisions... time..
If any of you guys have done this, I'd sure like to explore it.
I am guessing there are services I can trust for this.
Thanks again,
Mark
 
14k for trucking? Good Lord, what did you buy?

I could see farming cadcam out to expand or save labor costs, but to save software costs? What will you do when you want to tweak a path or add an operation? Call the guy and wait? Manually edit G code while the machine sits idle?

Unless the guy you are farming it to is next door, this seems like it will evicerate your utilization if you are a job shop. If you are running production of one product all day it might work.
 
Ok, bit of a odd idea here....

You're effectively a startup? Download the free edition of Fusion 360 - due the odd logic of Autodesk the free version happens to be Ultimate with 5 axis capabilities. So no investment to start on your part, but you have the software. Now enlist the aid of someone here on this forum or, possibly the Fusion forum as your CAD/CAM contractor. Now you can see what they are doing as they work on your models (for whatever fee you establish). With access to the models and tool paths, at some point, you should become comfortable with the software and take over.

Later having that CAD/CAM experience under your belt, you should be in a better place to evaluate the various software options and have hopefully accumulated enough capital to purchase what you need. Just strikes me that this is an area where the collaborative capabilities of Fusion might come in handy creating both a productive and a learning environment. Just my $0.02

Fred

Oops, just reread your post and realized that 'start up' may not apply...but maybe you could fudge it a little :)
 
Well, those are the exact points I am concerned with.
But, generally speaking, Bobcad can handle 95% right now.
Of course, that is subject to change when I get the machine and my capability expands... and word gets out.
Some production, and some jobbing here.
So.. get the machine, run with it, or go down the extra 18-25 and maybe blow the deal.
Everything is a risk, and I need to hear the bad news first.
Thanks!
Mark
 
Ok, bit of a odd idea here....

You're effectively a startup? Download the free edition of Fusion 360 - due the odd logic of Autodesk the free version happens to be Ultimate with 5 axis capabilities. So no investment to start on your part, but you have the software. Now enlist the aid of someone here on this forum or, possibly the Fusion forum as your CAD/CAM contractor. Now you can see what they are doing as they work on your models (for whatever fee you establish). With access to the models and tool paths, at some point, you should become comfortable with the software and take over.

Later having that CAD/CAM experience under your belt, you should be in a better place to evaluate the various software options and have hopefully accumulated enough capital to purchase what you need. Just strikes me that this is an area where the collaborative capabilities of Fusion might come in handy creating both a productive and a learning environment. Just my $0.02

Fred

Oops, just reread your post and realized that 'start up' may not apply...but maybe you could fudge it a little :)

Freds;
Hey, that sounds workable!
Yeah, 18 years in, still a startup...
Like I say, Bobcad can do most the stuff in the door. Just fine.
It would just be the goofy stuff I would need help on.
Great idea, I will start checking it out.
Mark
 
Ok, bit of a odd idea here....

You're effectively a startup? Download the free edition of Fusion 360 - due the odd logic of Autodesk the free version happens to be Ultimate with 5 axis capabilities. So no investment to start on your part, but you have the software. Now enlist the aid of someone here on this forum or, possibly the Fusion forum as your CAD/CAM contractor. Now you can see what they are doing as they work on your models (for whatever fee you establish). With access to the models and tool paths, at some point, you should become comfortable with the software and take over.

Later having that CAD/CAM experience under your belt, you should be in a better place to evaluate the various software options and have hopefully accumulated enough capital to purchase what you need. Just strikes me that this is an area where the collaborative capabilities of Fusion might come in handy creating both a productive and a learning environment. Just my $0.02

Fred

Oops, just reread your post and realized that 'start up' may not apply...but maybe you could fudge it a little :)

Well Fred...

Not only is that not an odd idea, rather you've just summed up PERFECTLY the benefits of the "Subscription-As-An-Option" model! ( Henceforth known as SAAO )

Despite the numerous efforts and umpteen thousands of advertising by Autodesk, that is EXACTLY how subscription can help with increasing market share.

Think about this for a minute.
Currently, schools use one software or another to teach various subjects. Let it be science, medicine, chemistry, math ... they likely employ a software tool of their choice.
Consequently when the student gets out in the real world, he/she already have a hands-on knowledge of said piece of software and can hit the ground at least walking
when the first job comes around who use that piece of software.

Similarly, kids in engineering schools might use Inventor, Solidworks, NX, Gibbs, MasterCAM or whatever, and when they get out in the wild, they just might
purchase the very same package they've learned on.

Now translate this to those of us who don't plan on going to school, but will need a piece of software to conduct our business.
Snowshooze is THE PERFECT EXAMPLE!!!

He's got a machine, and he has a need for a piece of software to run it.
On one hand he hasn't got the financial wherewithal to purchase a $15K+ piece of package, nor does he know what he would prefer.
And to boot, he has no access to places where he can test out various possibilities, other than the perhaps handicapped demo versions.

Well, enter the Subscription option!
He can rent the software on the monthly basis ( say $300/mo ) for as long as he'd want to not only practice, but get fully acquainted.
Then, when he is ready ( financially and otherwise ) he can decide to either:
a: Purchase a full permanent seat
b: Continue renting but perhaps longer periods
c: Ditch the thing and rent something else instead.

Why this concept is completely above and beyond the heads of board members of some software companies is above and beyond mine. :nutter:

"bout 8 years ago I spent $8K for a 3D solid modeler and another 4K for a CAM package, only to find out that neither of them is my cup of tea.
6 months later I've spent another $9K for Inventor and $5K for FeatureCAM, and then over the years added some new options to both.
With a subscription option, I could have saved a great deal of that initial $12K loss and spent it on testing out a few different tools instead.
 
Well Fred...

Not only is that not an odd idea, rather you've just summed up PERFECTLY the benefits of the "Subscription-As-An-Option" model! ( Henceforth known as SAAO )

Despite the numerous efforts and umpteen thousands of advertising by Autodesk, that is EXACTLY how subscription can help with increasing market share.

Think about this for a minute.
Currently, schools use one software or another to teach various subjects. Let it be science, medicine, chemistry, math ... they likely employ a software tool of their choice.
Consequently when the student gets out in the real world, he/she already have a hands-on knowledge of said piece of software and can hit the ground at least walking
when the first job comes around who use that piece of software.

Similarly, kids in engineering schools might use Inventor, Solidworks, NX, Gibbs, MasterCAM or whatever, and when they get out in the wild, they just might
purchase the very same package they've learned on.

Now translate this to those of us who don't plan on going to school, but will need a piece of software to conduct our business.
Snowshooze is THE PERFECT EXAMPLE!!!

He's got a machine, and he has a need for a piece of software to run it.
On one hand he hasn't got the financial wherewithal to purchase a $15K+ piece of package, nor does he know what he would prefer.
And to boot, he has no access to places where he can test out various possibilities, other than the perhaps handicapped demo versions.

Well, enter the Subscription option!
He can rent the software on the monthly basis ( say $300/mo ) for as long as he'd want to not only practice, but get fully acquainted.
Then, when he is ready ( financially and otherwise ) he can decide to either:
a: Purchase a full permanent seat
b: Continue renting but perhaps longer periods
c: Ditch the thing and rent something else instead.

Why this concept is completely above and beyond the heads of board members of some software companies is above and beyond mine. :nutter:

"bout 8 years ago I spent $8K for a 3D solid modeler and another 4K for a CAM package, only to find out that neither of them is my cup of tea.
6 months later I've spent another $9K for Inventor and $5K for FeatureCAM, and then over the years added some new options to both.
With a subscription option, I could have saved a great deal of that initial $12K loss and spent it on testing out a few different tools instead.



Golly.
I just checked it out... has CAM.
Only 3X but as suggested... I should be able to send my stuff over to someone with 5X post.

This really looks like a viable solution, especially for the short-term, and possibly beyond without the $18,000.00 +++ entry fee to just find out it isn't any good for my shop.

All you guys are just too good.

I can get the machine, rent the fusion and send off for 4+1 posting when I need.
Hey, I am going to proceed on these grounds.
I'll check back, but I think you will have me making chips.

My many thanks!!!

Mark

Footnote:
I think we should call it " Alternative Software Subscription Option "
AKA: ASSO

And I think all we ASSO's should demand it, en-mass.
There are enough of us where it will be noticed.
But, since Fusion 360 has already taken off on it, it may well be on it's way anyhow.
I sure don't want to shell out 25K for a pair of loafers without ever having a chance to walk across the street in them.

SD: Outstanding.
 
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Are you doing 3+2 work of simultaneous 4 axis work? HSMWorks (and derivatives) is a really great cam for 3+2. It is a staggeringly awful cam for simultaneous 4 and 5 axis work.
 
Hello.
I think your idea of outsourcing is sound but am wondering how it will work. Depending on what machine you got it might be easy to find someone to program but hard to post out. When I bought my can seat I got a dedicated post, if I want to program for other people I will have to buy posts for their machine. Perhaps an alternative is to demo the can packages. If you talk to reseller they would definitely set you up for a month or so. In any case I do not know your machine, so it might be a non issue as HSM works in fusion has decent Haas posts.
 
If you outsource the programming then I suggest you get a 3rd party verification program like Vericut so you can be preview the g-code in a virtual reality before you run it on your 150k investment.
 
What machine did you buy ? I help other local shops with 5x programming and turn keys when Im not here making chips myself.
I use Siemens NX and can help you get started I'm sure with whatever you need to run until you want to drop the money on the right software.
 
What machine did you buy ? I help other local shops with 5x programming and turn keys when Im not here making chips myself.
I use Siemens NX and can help you get started I'm sure with whatever you need to run until you want to drop the money on the right software.

Dstryr;

It has a Mazak Matrix Nexus 2 control. Not in hand as yet.
It will have a certain amount of on-board programming, and I only wonder if that will be anything beyond 3 axis. To program at the control... is probably the worst place I could do it anyway.
I have decided I just ain't gonna spring with the software dough right now... I am a Machinist...
But as things evolve, and I pay out the hardware... then I can add it.
But yes, for sure. Any you guys can help, you have always helped. And a lot.
Thanks!
Mark
 
If you outsource the programming then I suggest you get a 3rd party verification program like Vericut so you can be preview the g-code in a virtual reality before you run it on your 150k investment.

Well, I ain't gonna pitch my bread upon the waters just to see the ducks eat it.
There will be some requirements.. as with anything.
 
Only 3X but as suggested... I should be able to send my stuff over to someone with 5X post.

I can get the machine, rent the fusion and send off for 4+1 posting when I need.

Fusion can do a couple 5X simulatious paths and 3+2 is no problem. I doubt you'll need to send anything out due to lack of software functionality.
 
Hi All;
I am having a hard time with the concept of buying the Ferrarri and not putting wheels and tires on it just because you can't afford both.
Isn't the software to run your toolpaths an essential part of the purchase like cutters, collets and a vise?

I can certainly sympathize with not wanting to spend on unnecessary stuff and not wanting to make an expensive software mistake, but the very last thing I'd want, is to have the toy and be dependent on an outsource solution to run it.
That would drive me nuts!

Whether you choose a purchase or a rented cloudware solution is up to you, and decent arguments can be made for either, but if I really felt there wasn't enough meat in the gig to justify all the essentials, I'd drop the whole idea and spend my pennies elsewhere, or put them in my pocket until a better time.

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
www.vancouverwireedm.com
 
Do not outsource you programming for you new investment. Spend the money and time and invest into a good software package. Spend money on getting the proper training so you can make money off your investment. Set up a demo with a couple of cad/cam packages and once you choose one get trained on the software. As for training I do not mean just a 3 or 5 day training course, I mean a couple of weeks spread out over a few months. What ever software package you decide learn the ins and outs of the software.
 








 
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