Hiring a CAD person - need advice

MonkeyDoes · Mar 8, 2012

Hi guys,

I want to hire a CAD person to get some parts designed to get some of the tooling quoted/made for tables I am going MFG. I am currently tied up with managing other parts of the company and it is preventing me from getting things I need to get done, done.

I am relatively new to CAD (about 2 years) I can make parts/assemblies. I would like to hire somebody part-time. I need to know a wage range they should be paid, for what they may know. I am in the Detroit area if that helps?

Are there certain things to ask to weed out the bullshitters?

I will be designing the products myself, but having a CAD person with some design know how would be nice. I use Autodesk Inventor, I wouldn't be opposed to switching to solidworks if that meant having a much wider population of people to choose from hiring.

So what advice might you guys have?

Thanks,
Nigel

behindpropellers · Mar 8, 2012

If you hire somebody, make sure they have actually designed assemblies before. There are tons of people who can run cad but if you want a product designed you need to find a person who can show you more than one part.

MonkeyDoes · Mar 8, 2012

behindpropellers said:
If you hire somebody, make sure they have actually designed assemblies before. There are tons of people who can run cad but if you want a product designed you need to find a person who can show you more than one part.

I will make sure they will know how to form assemblies.

I thought it'd be a good Idea to set the person at a desk during an interview and tell him/her to create a simple part/assembly.

When interviewing people for a warehouse job I usually tell them to pick the tape gun up and tape 5 boxes. You'd be surprised how many people fail at that.

DDoug · Mar 8, 2012

behindpropellers said:
If you hire somebody, make sure they have actually designed assemblies before. There are tons of people who can run cad but if you want a product designed you need to find a person who can show you more than one part.

Yup,
there are plenty of "9 month school wonders" out there, known as
"CAD Jockeys" that can blow thru the system great, but need consultation
on how to crap.

You want some one where you take out in to the shop, show him your
designs, explain why you doo some thing a certain way ("always make the corner's like this")
and explain what your shop is limited to fabrication wise, and what price
the product need to stay below (some designers can get quite "extravagant").

And after the first week, you should be making minimum "napkin sketches"
to convey what you want. The hand holding should be minimal.

That is a designer, expect to pay more than for a "cartoonist", that
is constantly asking you questions.

Lambert · Mar 8, 2012

Yup , a cartoonist will be able to make nice 3D pictures.

In your position I`d look for a person who has some background in making stuff as well.
That way you`ll get engineering drawings which are realistic when it comes to GD&T and tolerances.

Knowing how to operate CAD-software does not imply one knows how to design a part in a proper way.
(manufactuarability etc.)

MonkeyDoes · Mar 8, 2012

Lambert said:
Yup , a cartoonist will be able to make nice 3D pictures.

In your position I`d look for a person who has some background in making stuff as well.
That way you`ll get engineering drawings which are realistic when it comes to GD&T and tolerances.

Knowing how to operate CAD-software does not imply one knows how to design a part in a proper way.
(manufactuarability etc.)

Good point, I will keep that in mind. I want to avoid all the BS with some bullshit newcomer to cad, and get adequate drawings to send out to have the tooling made.

digger doug said:
Yup,
there are plenty of "9 month school wonders" out there, known as
"CAD Jockeys" that can blow thru the system great, but need consultation
on how to crap.

You want some one where you take out in to the shop, show him your
designs, why you doo some thing a certain way ("always make the post like this")
and explain what your shop is limited to fabrication wise, and what price
the product need to stay below (some designers can get quite "extravagant").

And after the first week, you should be making minimum "napkin sketches"
to convey what you want. The hand holding should be minimal.

That is a designer, expect to pay more than for a "cartoonist", that
is constantly asking you questions.

An employee is constantly asking questions is the biggest turn off... I will do my best to avoid a "cartoonist". I think I will ask them detailed questions and provide me with what they have done in the past.

As far as wage range for a designer oriented CAD person what do you think?

tjd10684 · Mar 8, 2012

MonkeyDoes said:
Good point, I will keep that in mind. I want to avoid all the BS with some bullshit newcomer to cad, and get adequate drawings to send out to have the tooling made.

An employee is constantly asking questions is the biggest turn off... I will do my best to avoid a "cartoonist". I think I will ask them detailed questions and provide me with what they have done in the past.

As far as wage range for a designer oriented CAD person what do you think?

your asking a lot from a part timer. no experienced designer / drafter is going to want a job that is just part time. so you either need to deal with questions and help train the person or go to full time. as far as wages go assuming full time. a good drafter (with potential to design fresh from school) ought to be around 30K-35k per yr with ~5 yrs they should be about 37K-40k they should be able to do basic designs by them selves and more complex with minimal help. if you want someone who can do complex assembly and design them with manufacture in mind to reduce cost I would think you should be in the range of 45k-50k. This last person is basically an engineer without the degree.

Actually it sounds like your in the zone of anybody smart enough to work for you is too smart to work for you. No offense intended just saying if you need someone who can do all the things your describing your going to have to pay for it.

DDoug · Mar 8, 2012

tjd10684 said:
your asking a lot from a part timer. no experienced designer / drafter is going to want a job that is just part time..

I dis-agree (respectably) on 2 points:

1. Full time experienced guy wanting to "moonlight" after hours for some
extra money.

2. O.P.'s location is Michigan. People might want full time, but times are hard.

MonkeyDoes · Mar 8, 2012

tjd10684 said:
your asking a lot from a part timer. no experienced designer / drafter is going to want a job that is just part time. so you either need to deal with questions and help train the person or go to full time. as far as wages go assuming full time. a good drafter (with potential to design fresh from school) ought to be around 30K-35k per yr with ~5 yrs they should be about 37K-40k they should be able to do basic designs by them selves and more complex with minimal help. if you want someone who can do complex assembly and design them with manufacture in mind to reduce cost I would think you should be in the range of 45k-50k. This last person is basically an engineer without the degree.

Actually it sounds like your in the zone of anybody smart enough to work for you is too smart to work for you. No offense intended just saying if you need someone who can do all the things your describing your going to have to pay for it.

This has been my problem in hiring part time in other fields. But hey, somtimes you get lucky. Most of the time a certain scenario results in a predictable outcome :rolleyes5:

digger doug said:
I dis-agree (respectivelly) on 2 points:

1. Full time experienced guy wanting to "moonlight" after hours for some
extra money.

2. O.P.'s location is Michigan. People might want full time, but times are hard.

Yes, I was hoping I would get lucky with my location. There's alot of skilled out of work people in my area (detroit).

tjd10684 · Mar 8, 2012

digger doug said:
I dis-agree (respectably) on 2 points:

1. Full time experienced guy wanting to "moonlight" after hours for some
extra money.

2. O.P.'s location is Michigan. People might want full time, but times are hard.

1. Ok I'll accept that but only if you can let them work off hours or flex hours like that. If they have to be there at the same time you are then that may a bit of a problem.

2. I can accept this point also just don't take advantage of somebody because they have nowhere else to go. If you do when times get better (hopefully sooner rather than later) they will leave you in a heart beat. Treat them well and they will treat you well. Happy employees are loyal productive employees.

MonkeyDoes · Mar 8, 2012

tjd10684 said:
1. Ok I'll accept that but only if you can let them work off hours or flex hours like that. If they have to be there at the same time you are then that may a bit of a problem.

2. I can accept this point also just don't take advantage of somebody because they have nowhere else to go. If you do when times get better (hopefully sooner rather than later) they will leave you in a heart beat. Treat them well and they will treat you well. Happy employees are loyal productive employees.

I have no intention of taking advantage of my employees. I have built relationships with my employees that have lasted. They may have moved on to other things (becoming stay at home dad... etc. etc.) but will gladly do things for me on the side.

Business is all about relationships, this includes employees.

tjd10684 · Mar 8, 2012

MonkeyDoes said:
I have no intention of taking advantage of my employees. I have built relationships with my employees that have lasted. They may have moved on to other things (becoming stay at home dad... etc. etc.) but will gladly do things for me on the side.

Business is all about relationships, this includes employees.

I like your philosophy. If I ever move out that way maybe I will have to look your shop up :cheers:

m98custom1212 · Mar 9, 2012

I'm your guy and would be more then happy to help you.

top-mach · Mar 10, 2012

Nigel,

These are certain things from my experience:

1.Knowledge of Cad system (Most of the system available today in the market are solid modelling)
2.Experience in product design
3.Feasibility of manufacturing and cost effective (If you are making your own product)
4.Basic knowledge of manufacturing (To get a better idea of how the parts are manufactured)

Mr Wizard · Apr 15, 2012

I agree with MonkeyDoes, I have a relationship with my past employer and help him whenever he asks and I can, and will continue to do so. I also just purchased SolidWorks Pro 2012 and the problem you have with some one doing design work for you when there may not be enough to pay someone full time is the niche I am looking to occupy. I am just learning Solidworks so I am not able to help you now, but I have been cranking handles for 20+ years as well doing 2D drawings for myself and customers. I also support maintenance operations and am quite familiar with good design concepts and what the customer will have to live with on the long term as a result of the design. I can't believe that I am unique, so I think what you are doing on the forum and networking will find you the resources you need, especially with your attitude towards business relationships. Good luck

toolie955 · Apr 16, 2012

Mr Wizard said:
I agree with MonkeyDoes, I have a relationship with my past employer and help him whenever he asks and I can, and will continue to do so. I also just purchased SolidWorks Pro 2012 and the problem you have with some one doing design work for you when there may not be enough to pay someone full time is the niche I am looking to occupy. I am just learning Solidworks so I am not able to help you now, but I have been cranking handles for 20+ years as well doing 2D drawings for myself and customers. I also support maintenance operations and am quite familiar with good design concepts and what the customer will have to live with on the long term as a result of the design. I can't believe that I am unique, so I think what you are doing on the forum and networking will find you the resources you need, especially with your attitude towards business relationships. Good luck

Mr Wizard,

Sounds familiar,
I worked as a toolmaker for 27 years for my family business, progressing from toolroom to EDM specialist, then took over the CADCAM from a leaving employee who held us over a barrell with every pay review. Eventually I called his bluff, and he left, and left us right in the soup, with machines that needed programming and designs that needed finishing.
So, I learnt the system (Delcam) in my own time, and within 4 weeks, was fully on stream. Then I realised how much money he was actually costing.
After designing the Eurofighter Breathing apparatus....
Cam Lock — G4 ADOM Mask
....we went from a good business to a great business. Till we got taken over. We sold out to Gentex in the end.

So, went programming for a year as a contractor, then went on to run the biggest Triumph dealership motorcycle workshop in the UK. Still there now.

Currently learning Solidworks, with an aim to getting CSWA (Assosiate), then CSWP (Pro) and then majoring in surfacing and mould design, then my CSWE. (Expert).
Hopefully should be finished in 18 months. Then suppliment my income with off line programming.

So, MonkeyDoes, we are out there, and forums like this one get us all together.
This one and Linked-In of course.

Toolie.

TN_Toolman · Apr 18, 2012

MonkeyDoes said:
Are there certain things to ask to weed out the bullshitters

This reminds me of our local companies job interview.
They had some positions to fill and were interviewing potential job candidates.
The only question in the entire interview was, "What did you do to take off from work today?"
If they answered with "used a vacation day or personal day", they were hired if their job skills were adequate.
If they answered with something like "I just laid out today", they were told to hit the road.

While this is an extreme case, there is some truth in this.
Whoever you hire will not be perfect at first; it will take time.

I know the cost of an employee is definitely something that must be considered, but a trustworthy, dedicated, & loyal employee is worth their weight in gold.

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