Obtaining Genuine Keys for CAD/CAM systems

Is there a market for people who want to buy old keys to CAD/CAM software?

We're using 2002 esprit (lol) on a win98 computer, and I would just like to update the system before this old one crashes. I mean I guess it works, but I've worked around computers long enough to know that the hardware fucks up eventually and we're left with our thumbs up our asses for awhile until I fix it. Older computer hardware is also prone to completely falling apart due to power supply issues (it craps out suddenly and fries the motherboard), whereas newer computers don't have that same problem.

I sold a couple of the old parallel port keys for MCX to a small shop about a year and a half ago along with the install disc. I only got 100 per though, as there is no support for them and it's really only small start up shops that are interested.

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John_B said:

I sold a couple of the old parallel port keys for MCX to a small shop about a year and a half ago along with the install disc. I only got 100 per though, as there is no support for them and it's really only small start up shops that are interested.

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We're not a start up shop, but it's still hard to justify such a large expenditure on CAD/CAM software. I was just curious as to if there were any websites that sold them second-hand.

My understanding is that the keys are not really transferable. If you want to know call a reseller.

Yeah, I doubt you can sell it. You don't own it. Read the fine print of the EULA if you can find it. There are a few exceptions, like Rhino, but that's rare. As for not justifying CAD/CAM expenditures, take a look at Autodesk. Everything is rented. Fusion360 was on sale this week for $80 for 2 years.

Dan

My 2 cents on this.

I have a small shop that I run by myself. I dicked around with some lower cost solution at one point and was frustrated and wasting time. I new Solidworks and Gibbs from my day job. I ponied up and bought a seat of each and have never regretted it. I can get the work done now and quickly. You need to think of this stuff as another asset in the shop. You can't really do lathe work without a good lathe. You can, but it aint quick or handy. Same with good CAM. You can do it but it aint quick or handy. Time is money. I can hand code better than most and I don't do it anymore unless I really need to.

My advice. Don't waste any more time. Buy a seat of good software and get some training and make money.

ARB said:

My 2 cents on this.

I have a small shop that I run by myself. I dicked around with some lower cost solution at one point and was frustrated and wasting time. I new Solidworks and Gibbs from my day job. I ponied up and bought a seat of each and have never regretted it. I can get the work done now and quickly. You need to think of this stuff as another asset in the shop. You can't really do lathe work without a good lathe. You can, but it aint quick or handy. Same with good CAM. You can do it but it aint quick or handy. Time is money. I can hand code better than most and I don't do it anymore unless I really need to.

My advice. Don't waste any more time. Buy a seat of good software and get some training and make money.

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What do you think about Gibbs? Is it good for making prints, as well as programming? How much was it, and what specific package did you buy? Like 2-axis lathe and 3-axis milling?

palr717 said:

What do you think about Gibbs? Is it good for making prints, as well as programming? How much was it, and what specific package did you buy? Like 2-axis lathe and 3-axis milling?

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I have the 3D solid surfacer package. IIRC when I got it years ago it was about 12k

It is not good for prints at all. It is good for cutting parts. I've been using it for almost 20 years now and it is what I know.

I would recommend getting in touch with some resellers and setting up demos for the mid range options and see what flips your skirt.

I must say that HSMworks looks nice inside Solidworks now.

You can certainly buy an old version with a usb/parallel lock; the software police probably won't be breaking any doors down, LOL. The EULA's typically say users don't own the software and it isn't transferable but in practice there is no functional difference between a user which has let his support lapse and a user who came a across an old copy. Still most EULA's say the latter shouldn't be allowed even though the person using the old copy never agreed to anything. I would think the software companies would be okay with that because it is sort of like a trial copy and they stand a chance of someone liking it and then buying current licenses. The only times I have ever heard of any legal action resulted from companies blatantly circumventing security measures to avoid paying for current software which is a huge no-no! Escalate the number of illegal licenses and the severity of the crime increases as well; felony charges are common in these cases not to mention businesses having to close their doors permanently.

To stay on topic you can try to sell it on eBay. Not sure how much a 14 years old version would sell though.
eBuyer may or not know they will have a hard time to get support or to upgrade their software seat.
If you are the original owner of the ESPRIT license they should provide you with an updated copy with a substantial discount since you want to stay with them, it is an excellent leverage point to deal with the sale guy.
If you do not care about ESPRIT or this is too costly, you may want to look at other Software solutions.
I recently updated a key from 2007 running TYPE EDIT full version (| Type3) and got a "loyalty discount" after I did not renew any contract for 9 years.

Depending on what you do in your shop TYPE3 Software might just be what you need: Type3: Global leader for CAD & CAM Software Solutions | Type3

As far as I know, they can only be transferred if it was part of the sale of a business.

ARB said:

My 2 cents on this.

I have a small shop that I run by myself. I dicked around with some lower cost solution at one point and was frustrated and wasting time. I new Solidworks and Gibbs from my day job. I ponied up and bought a seat of each and have never regretted it. I can get the work done now and quickly. You need to think of this stuff as another asset in the shop. You can't really do lathe work without a good lathe. You can, but it aint quick or handy. Same with good CAM. You can do it but it aint quick or handy. Time is money. I can hand code better than most and I don't do it anymore unless I really need to.

My advice. Don't waste any more time. Buy a seat of good software and get some training and make money.

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Well said.

Regarding the possibility of your older software becoming a dead end because the compatible hardware croaks, you could buy some more computers as backups and load your operating system and applications software on them. I expect this will become a topic of interest as frustration builds over not being able to purchase the perpetual right to use software, at least newer editions. As far as I am concerned, screw renting it. A maintenance subscription is one thing, but having your own intellectual property (i.e., your designs and models and the manufacturing thereof) held hostage, naah.

If you are a manufacturer and all your CAD/CAM is internal, you can choose to freeze everything at versions that already work together seamlessly, and for which you already possess the discs, keys and serial number history. That solution may be extreme but it represents physical security and permanence--as opposed to the evanescence quite literally implied by the term "cloud."

Now, I'm not a prepper; I don't keep a battery-ignition car around in case of EMP. I just don't like having my options taken away, which is what the subscription-only business model is intended to do to its customers. There is no other pupose to it; they are trying to turn a product into a service, a concept already meekly accepted by those who are entranced by their smartphones. As for keeping up technologically, it's actually rare that a new edition of, say, Solid Works actually incorporates improvements. Mostly it incorporates changes, which is not the same thing. If every year brought an immediate improvement you would not have to wait for the second service pack to come out before daring to load it.

car2 said:

...I think most companies "maintenance" costs are way too high. Usually their "support" for technical problems is poor, and not needed often, and the insipid "updates" too often and of little value so often (mucking with the user-interfaces, adding useless redundant gadgets that most experienced users don't need or use (but impress the bean-counters and management), and throwing in some crippled snippet of an expensive addon-package as a "bone" and "advertisement" in an attempt to get people to buy the full package...). I can perform probably 95% of tasks on a 15 year old version of Unigraphics, as a current version--albeit it doesn't have the 500 "windows icons" interface that one now must use.

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That being said, @OP I say it's up to you to sell it if you wish and depending on what the market is. Also, if it is very, very old the verbage for lic transfer may not even exist, lol. If it's old and you cannot get anything for it then perhaps it's time to de-clutter your office and toss it especially if it doesn't serve you anymore. I applaud cam users who hang onto really old releases if it suits them but it really is a case by case basis; certainly not a blanket solution for everyone. I could never sit back, even a single version, because there are always new enhancements, not to mention support, which makes service so valuable to us. Recently we terminated a business relationship with a contractor because he was sitting back 4 or 5 versions and the headaches it caused us made it not worth it to do business with him.

IMO I say try to sell the software for what you can (if you can, lol) and dump the hardware in the recycle pile.



NX10.0.3
NX11.0.1 testing upon release

I have some older software which does what I need and which I firmly intend to use for the foreseeable future.
PC hardware support for older operating systems looks like becoming an issue in the next few years and for this reason I've started work on a Proxmox virtualisation server to allow me time to develop working machine images for all the required applications before I can no longer buy a PC that will allow installation,

- Nick

Qwan said:

...Recently we terminated a business relationship with a contractor because he was sitting back 4 or 5 versions and the headaches it caused us made it not worth it to do business with him.

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Well, that's the customer point of view. Perhaps he had previously concluded the amount of business wasn't worth the headaches of updates and/or subscription-based software. There have been a number of threads on that subject in the Shop Owners and Management forum, relatively few of them taking the customer side. So the question of whether to stay on the merry-go-round remains a legitimately debatable one.

I exchange 3D files with customers all over the world and we import and manipulate each other's models until we arrive at a product shape that will fit their envelope. You would think such a situation would demand everybody be on contemporary versions of the same platform but in reality that almost never happens. We're on Solid Works, they're frequently on Catia, and even though both are owned by Dassault two more mutually antagonistic systems don't exist. But if you just convert all files to STEP or Parasolid format before transmitting them you can open in your own software and use it. Piece of cake. Of course all models have to be error-free prior to conversion but with errors they aren't viable anyway.

Anyway, if the job-shop biz has gotten to where the customer dictates what software you need to read their files, it sounds a lot like the automotive industry. Glad I'm not there.

You can do what you want with it. Know the laws. Software licenses only pertain to software that the creators currently support. SW2002 is no longer supported by SW; so, there are no restrictions.

myemail said:

You can do what you want with it. Know the laws. Software licenses only pertain to software that the creators currently support. SW2002 is no longer supported by SW; so, there are no restrictions.

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Could you provide some links to back this statement up? We got in some hot water a few years ago for having old Office 2000 software installed when we shouldn't have. It was 2008. Our lawyer would disagree with your statement above. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I sure would like to see how you came to this conclusion, even though it's too late for us to do anything about it now.

Dan

SW Companies cannot mandate upgrades.
But you often legally cannot keep both old and new, if you don´t buy the new as a standalone, with PC etc.

Ie own old office.
Fine, you can use as long as you like.
But say buy and office 2012 upgarde .. well you are theoretically not necessarily allowed to use the old one and the new one without buying licenses.
And it often does not work well with office and 2 versions on same PC.
? Different PCs - you need new licenses.

Hard to do well w. 2 office versions (it IS doable).
They ie MS do it somewhat on purpose.

Dan B said:

Could you provide some links to back this statement up? We got in some hot water a few years ago for having old Office 2000 software installed when we shouldn't have. It was 2008. Our lawyer would disagree with your statement above. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I sure would like to see how you came to this conclusion, even though it's too late for us to do anything about it now.

Dan

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The DCMA ruled on this and many other topics along these lines in 2010. If you cannot find the ruling online, perhaps it is because media companies paid a lot to bury it. I remember ready through the entire ruling shortly after it was released.