What software would you recommend for being the most user friendly for single through 4- axis milling? The software I am currently using (geopath) is fine for drilling,tapping,& milling on flat surfaces,even using the 4th axis for rotation between cuts, but when it comes to cutting multiple splines, slots or spirals on the outer diameter of cylenders needing 4 axis movement at one time it becomes somewhat cumbersome. Any and all suggestions appreciated.This will be something I think all shops would be interested in seeing the replies!
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POLL : Mill Software
- Thread starter Skeeto
- Start date
- Replies 35
- Views 3,819
SeymourDumore
Diamond
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Location
- CT
Oh boy Skeeto.
You're opening a can that's potentially full of deadly worms.
I once was thinking about something similar and as a precursor asked the guys here what is the primary target for their shops, as in production, prototype, mold etc. Just wanted to get a feel for what makes people tick for one software or another.
I came to believe it's nothing tangible. It is a very very personal preference, and completely depends on the individual.
But to answer your question with regards to what I just said, I would prolly be collecting stamps if it wasn't for Autocad.
For CAM I initially went with a software highly touted by many of the members here and on other boards for it's capability and ease of use. Could not make a single miserable program with it, at least not in any way I would have liked to.
After getting completely disgusted, I looked at FeatureCAM. Bought it on the spot and never looked back.
SO again, user friendly is in the eye of the beholder.
You're opening a can that's potentially full of deadly worms.
I once was thinking about something similar and as a precursor asked the guys here what is the primary target for their shops, as in production, prototype, mold etc. Just wanted to get a feel for what makes people tick for one software or another.
I came to believe it's nothing tangible. It is a very very personal preference, and completely depends on the individual.
But to answer your question with regards to what I just said, I would prolly be collecting stamps if it wasn't for Autocad.
For CAM I initially went with a software highly touted by many of the members here and on other boards for it's capability and ease of use. Could not make a single miserable program with it, at least not in any way I would have liked to.
After getting completely disgusted, I looked at FeatureCAM. Bought it on the spot and never looked back.
SO again, user friendly is in the eye of the beholder.
PBMW
Titanium
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2005
- Location
- Bremerton, Wa
I really have to agree with Seymour. The software you use (your preferences) are shaped by what you learned with. I started many years ago with Auto Cad and Smart Cam. I used ACAD for years. YEARS. Then I found Solidworks and never looked back. I've used Mastercam since ver 3 I think. It works well for me. I have also used Surfcam, Gibbs, (very strange to my way of thinking) UG, Catia, ProE, APT, NCL and some others. It depends on your parts, your schedule and your machines. You need to go test drive them. I know that some, but not all of the makers will let you demo their software for an extended period of time. It may cost you a little to do it, but you can get a trial for a couple months to see if it's really for you. Nothing will be of more help in your search than trying different systems.
ARB
Titanium
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2002
- Location
- Granville,NY,USA
Seymour and PBMW really hit it well. It is such a dynamic match for your parts and personell that it is hard to say. I will say that for most design work it is hard to beat Solidworks. I use it everyday and would be lost without it.
We use Gibbs and for the most part it is great. There are some things that it does that I don't like but there are also countless things that it does that I don't even think about because it does them so well. I primarilly use Gibbs for mold work and 3D surface machining of bending tools. I would recommend giving a good look.
I would also agree that you need to look at all the major players. They each present their own strengths and weeknesses. Some are better at 2.5D production and others better at mold work. Some have the MTM thing pretty well sorted out.
I would say that anylizing your work and talking with the vendors and setting up demos of your parts will answer alot of questions.
It would be interesting to shop again now that I have been using this stuff for 10 years. The demos would mean more and I would have better questions.
Good luck
ARB
We use Gibbs and for the most part it is great. There are some things that it does that I don't like but there are also countless things that it does that I don't even think about because it does them so well. I primarilly use Gibbs for mold work and 3D surface machining of bending tools. I would recommend giving a good look.
I would also agree that you need to look at all the major players. They each present their own strengths and weeknesses. Some are better at 2.5D production and others better at mold work. Some have the MTM thing pretty well sorted out.
I would say that anylizing your work and talking with the vendors and setting up demos of your parts will answer alot of questions.
It would be interesting to shop again now that I have been using this stuff for 10 years. The demos would mean more and I would have better questions.
Good luck
ARB
HuFlungDung
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
- Location
- Canada
Running demos is the best way to preview, although it takes a fair amount of time to familiarize yourself with any new software. Or, if you have no prior experience, then it becomes very difficult to just jump in, because as ARB implied, you barely know what you need.
OneCNC has a pretty good implementation of 4th axis. I do 4th axis work rarely, and the thing I like about using it in OneCNC, is that it is just a slight expansion on the daily 3 axis programming routines that one gets familiar with using. This keeps the learning curve short, and re-learning to use it after a few weeks of not doing any 4th axis is not a problem.
I do not think that the OneCNC demo actually has 4th axis enabled. For that, you would have to have the tech support people do a demo for you, not that it is difficult by any means. I would highly recommend viewing it in action.
OneCNC is also a CAD system, and if you want the 4th axis module, you will be getting the solid modelling capability along with it.
OneCNC has a pretty good implementation of 4th axis. I do 4th axis work rarely, and the thing I like about using it in OneCNC, is that it is just a slight expansion on the daily 3 axis programming routines that one gets familiar with using. This keeps the learning curve short, and re-learning to use it after a few weeks of not doing any 4th axis is not a problem.
I do not think that the OneCNC demo actually has 4th axis enabled. For that, you would have to have the tech support people do a demo for you, not that it is difficult by any means. I would highly recommend viewing it in action.
OneCNC is also a CAD system, and if you want the 4th axis module, you will be getting the solid modelling capability along with it.
SeymourDumore
Diamond
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Location
- CT
One nice thing about FeatureCAM demo is that you can get a fully functional dongle for $50. It works with every single feature turned on for 30 days. Import anything you want, use anything you want, post anything you want, ask support anything you want, no strings attached, just your $50.
Absolutely nothing to loose, drive it for what it's worth the way you want it.
Can't tell you about the 4 axis stuff as I have not used it yet, but it is part of the 2.5D package.
For friendlyness, some people might get intimidated by the gazillion options, but they are there only if you want them. The so called "Knowledge based" manufacturing takes care of most of the defaults, so once dialed in it works exactly how you want most of your features cut in a generic way. OTOH if you want to tinker with things, the options are nearly endless and they do in fact make everything possible.
Again, it's a personal thing, AFAIK CAM should be an aid and not the Lt. Commander Data of machining. I want it the way I want it and not how someone else thought I should want it.
Absolutely nothing to loose, drive it for what it's worth the way you want it.
Can't tell you about the 4 axis stuff as I have not used it yet, but it is part of the 2.5D package.
For friendlyness, some people might get intimidated by the gazillion options, but they are there only if you want them. The so called "Knowledge based" manufacturing takes care of most of the defaults, so once dialed in it works exactly how you want most of your features cut in a generic way. OTOH if you want to tinker with things, the options are nearly endless and they do in fact make everything possible.
Again, it's a personal thing, AFAIK CAM should be an aid and not the Lt. Commander Data of machining. I want it the way I want it and not how someone else thought I should want it.
I understand completely .My mill programmer has decided to take up an offer with another company and I am going to mark this up to a learning experience and not rely on 1 person for this responsibility, as I am sure we have all had this happen. So I am trying to get some unbiased input from experienced people like yourself about the software available today and your thoughts on the communication level of difficulty associated with them. I think our biggest challenge we face is OD splines, J-Slots and lugs. I want to give my mill team a tool that will give them the opportunity to mature there machining capabilities. Thanks again!
PBMW
Titanium
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2005
- Location
- Bremerton, Wa
Here's another thing. And I'm not hawking the software I use, but it's one of the reasons I use it...
MAstercam has at least eight different ways of doing most anything. Now, some folks may find that intimidating, but the more experience you get, the more you'll appreciate it.
As Seymour said, I want my code the way I want my code. I do very little editing of code to get it.
MAstercam has at least eight different ways of doing most anything. Now, some folks may find that intimidating, but the more experience you get, the more you'll appreciate it.
As Seymour said, I want my code the way I want my code. I do very little editing of code to get it.
appliedproto
Stainless
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
- Location
- Hingham, MA
I have to agree with the suggestions of taking your time and demo as many makes as possible, till you find one you like. I spent $4500 on CamWorks, and for software that should make your life easy...this one doesn't.
I'm getting more use to my version, but for a system that its claim-to-fame is its integration in Solidworks, it's about as menu driven as Pro/E. There's no point in this day in age for you not to be able to "point and click" in a fast manner on the features you want done. And the tool database complexity I find very unhelpful, and pain to try to reconfigure the tool parameters.
So in other words, if you can...do you're homework and find something that works for you. And that's not an easy task because there are WAY too many CAM manufacturers out there that make crappy programs, the pool really needs to be cut in half...
I'm getting more use to my version, but for a system that its claim-to-fame is its integration in Solidworks, it's about as menu driven as Pro/E. There's no point in this day in age for you not to be able to "point and click" in a fast manner on the features you want done. And the tool database complexity I find very unhelpful, and pain to try to reconfigure the tool parameters.
So in other words, if you can...do you're homework and find something that works for you. And that's not an easy task because there are WAY too many CAM manufacturers out there that make crappy programs, the pool really needs to be cut in half...
PBMW
Titanium
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2005
- Location
- Bremerton, Wa
For the average "Job Shop", I think the players are Mastercam, Gibbs, Surfcam, OneCNC, Featurecam, and Edgecam.
I realize there are more....but those are the major ones.
I realize there are more....but those are the major ones.
I hate to bring this up but, using demo dongles that cost $50 is not smart on the vendors part. i give this as a last resort if you cant quite afford to purchase the full blown version at the present point in time.
the demo is started once you install the software. then it looks at the c-mos clock on the mother board. its quite simple, if you need a little more time just goto setup when your computor boots then backdate the c-mos clock. you would think that the manufacturer would set the demo up for how many starts rather than days.
the demo is started once you install the software. then it looks at the c-mos clock on the mother board. its quite simple, if you need a little more time just goto setup when your computor boots then backdate the c-mos clock. you would think that the manufacturer would set the demo up for how many starts rather than days.
SeymourDumore
Diamond
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Location
- CT
G-coder
Maybe on some dongles, but on FC there is a start date and end date that's attached to your dongle serial#, which I believe is registered through Delcam.
IOW you may testdrive the software as you downloaded it for as long as you want. You can import and toy with the software, no save or posting allowed. Then purchase the $50 dongle for the 30 day fully functional version. If you then decide to buy it, you'll get the full unlock code which is once again registered through Delcam.
And to just make my position very very clear, I WILL NOT purchase and WOULD NOT recommend anyone to purchase a software in these categories without:
a: Fully functional testdrive
or
b: Written guarantee of full refund within xx. days.
In case of b, make sure you drive it for whatever it's worth and decide BEFORE the xx days.
Use my $2500 mistake as a lesson.
Maybe on some dongles, but on FC there is a start date and end date that's attached to your dongle serial#, which I believe is registered through Delcam.
IOW you may testdrive the software as you downloaded it for as long as you want. You can import and toy with the software, no save or posting allowed. Then purchase the $50 dongle for the 30 day fully functional version. If you then decide to buy it, you'll get the full unlock code which is once again registered through Delcam.
And to just make my position very very clear, I WILL NOT purchase and WOULD NOT recommend anyone to purchase a software in these categories without:
a: Fully functional testdrive
or
b: Written guarantee of full refund within xx. days.
In case of b, make sure you drive it for whatever it's worth and decide BEFORE the xx days.
Use my $2500 mistake as a lesson.
smallshop
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2005
- Location
- North Central Montana
"MAstercam has at least eight different ways of doing most anything"
Yep! I went from MC to Surfcam and boy was I disappointed.Especially on 2d toolpath choices and ramping on and off with overlap.these two programs aren't even in the same class....
I am using Rhinocam Pro ($4500) now and I really like it. Much easier to use than Surfcam not all the bells and whistles of Mastercam but not 14-18k either.....
Yep! I went from MC to Surfcam and boy was I disappointed.Especially on 2d toolpath choices and ramping on and off with overlap.these two programs aren't even in the same class....
I am using Rhinocam Pro ($4500) now and I really like it. Much easier to use than Surfcam not all the bells and whistles of Mastercam but not 14-18k either.....
PBMW
Titanium
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2005
- Location
- Bremerton, Wa
Here's another thing to consider. If you share work with other shops, what cam systems are they using? what system do your customers use? Same thing with Cad systems. I realize that some areas use one system and other areas use other software. Here, in the Pacific Northwest, it's Mastercam and Solidworks. get into Aerospace five axis stuff and it's UG and ACL to program and UG and Catia to design. So, it really depends on what you do and where you do it at.
Mike-Mat
Plastic
- Joined
- May 15, 2006
- Location
- Mesa - USA
Any Cam pkg that has capabilities worth using, is going to take some effort to learn. 4th axis, 5th axis, multi axis lathes all take some understanding of how the system works. If you dont do that kind of work, that's fine. Then what ever seems easiest to use, is the package for you. But Easy Of Use is a very personal thing.
There is no substitute for a good dealer and good training class.
Edgecam did some smart things when they went to "Operations" as a way to reduce the user input. The software make some logical decisions based on the part/feature/toolpath/tool you selected.
I sell Video training CD's. I've had people buy my cd's just to see how a package works on real parts. They have also used them with demo disks to get a feel for the software.
Someone mentioned getting a free no-obligation trial of the software. Some dealers will do that. But I can tell you from experience, when someone has no-obligation, that's exactly how they treat the whole evaluation. If you expect the dealer to support you during this trial with questions and posts, you should expect to get some training for a proper evaluation.
Mike Mattera
Tips For Manufacturing
www.tipsformfg.com (edgecam)
www.tipsformanufacturing.com (mastercam & anilam controls)
There is no substitute for a good dealer and good training class.
Edgecam did some smart things when they went to "Operations" as a way to reduce the user input. The software make some logical decisions based on the part/feature/toolpath/tool you selected.
I sell Video training CD's. I've had people buy my cd's just to see how a package works on real parts. They have also used them with demo disks to get a feel for the software.
Someone mentioned getting a free no-obligation trial of the software. Some dealers will do that. But I can tell you from experience, when someone has no-obligation, that's exactly how they treat the whole evaluation. If you expect the dealer to support you during this trial with questions and posts, you should expect to get some training for a proper evaluation.
Mike Mattera
Tips For Manufacturing
www.tipsformfg.com (edgecam)
www.tipsformanufacturing.com (mastercam & anilam controls)
Madlab
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2004
- Location
- Lost Angeles
MasterCam for me!!! Why you ask? Guys like Mike Mattera and others that make training materials, also emastercam (yes I know some of you have gotten the bum's rush there but I have always got great answers there)Also I have an excellent MCam dealer that gives me way more help than I deserve ( USC discount So I sure don't pay allot of money .) But we would pay full pop just because MCam is something that I can easily get any and all the help I need unlike...... the competition.
I know some of you picture Ol'Madlab sitting at his desk smoking a stogie with his feet up on the desk.... beautiful Coeds running around..... but it ain't true nor is the rumors about me pushing a shopping cart around Hazzard park talking to my self. I make stuff that really push the envolope.... and that is to me the bottom line being able to get the job done and mastercam never lets me down. Heck I would spend less for a machine if I had to give up Mastercam to get a better machine, That is how important I think a program that can get the job done is. oh yeah I have used in the past Teksoft, Surfcam ,Catia and Esprit. I am not a computer wiz but I know enough to do my job well enough to keep the best job I have ever had. -matt
I know some of you picture Ol'Madlab sitting at his desk smoking a stogie with his feet up on the desk.... beautiful Coeds running around..... but it ain't true nor is the rumors about me pushing a shopping cart around Hazzard park talking to my self. I make stuff that really push the envolope.... and that is to me the bottom line being able to get the job done and mastercam never lets me down. Heck I would spend less for a machine if I had to give up Mastercam to get a better machine, That is how important I think a program that can get the job done is. oh yeah I have used in the past Teksoft, Surfcam ,Catia and Esprit. I am not a computer wiz but I know enough to do my job well enough to keep the best job I have ever had. -matt
BOSTON
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2006
- Location
- Boston,Mass.
Onecnc will give you the code to active the 4th axis in the demo mode. I was looking at it a few month ago and found it to be a very good package. I just could not justify the cost at this time. The Quote I recive was $4500 plus $500 for forth axis. just give them a call and they will turn it on for you
Calzone
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
- Location
- Southeast Kansas
Just like Seymour said, there's a big o' can of worms on this issue.
I say call all of them, and schedule a webX type demonstration. They'll do it for free, and you'll be able to see some of the features the software offers watching a veteren operate it.
/whisper I like UG
I say call all of them, and schedule a webX type demonstration. They'll do it for free, and you'll be able to see some of the features the software offers watching a veteren operate it.
/whisper I like UG