Thread: Sworks to bobcad to haas issues???

Hey guys started for company just getting into cnc production,mostly protos and small runs. We have 2 baby HAAS, a TL-1 lathe and a TM-2 Mill. Im running the machines and trying to write manual programs on lathe currently. I dont know much about Solidworks im self taught machinist not the engineer, not even sure what version the engineer has. Only 3rd day at company for me. From what i understand the proven programs they do have on TM-2 were done on solidworks then transferred to bobcad then to the mill?? Any ideas on why they are having to do that?? Im a HUMBLE person and dont pretend i know everything the reason i say that is this mill is using DIAMETER for offset reading and not RADIUS, I ran a "proven" program and ran into some misleading information, their using a 3in mill but geometry for that tools DIA was at something like 1.378 which isnt the DIA or RAD of a 3in mill?? Am I missing something?? any help is greatly appreciated!! New to practical machinist already appreciative of information found through this site

The parts were modeled using SW and then imported to BobCAD/CAM in order to generate toolpaths, G-code, for the mill. Unless you have something like CAMWorks or SolidCAM which are integrated into SW you need to import your model to BobCAD/CAM, MasterCAM, SurfCAM, some kind of CAM. Your employer has been using BobCAD/CAM because of it's relatively low price point. Don't know what to tell you about your offset other than some controllers ask you to enter the tool diameter and then the controller does the division for you. Good luck.

BobCad is integrated into Solidworks also, but they may not have that version...

Good luck. you are gonna need one.

Basically designers create their models in a software that is made for that specific application.
Then its up to programmers to load the model into CAM software and create a CNC G-Code program BASED on supplied geometry.

I guess the problem with design software is that they are feature based.
IE: in SolidEdge's CAM extension drill toolpaths work well, because theres only few ways you can make a hole. But at the same time you can not have any additional geometry CNC programmers use all the time. Everything you are gonna need for toolpath needs to be designed. Because in there you dont really chain a contour, you select a feature and its then up to SolidEdge to decide what to do with it.

That's what i figured from watching demo by a guy who was trying to sell it to the company. On a test model he stumbled on a little open pocket which would take 10 seconds to program with "Regular" CAM software.
He spent 30 minutes and in the end toolpath looked worse than my 2.5year old daughter's picture of me.

Anyway regarding weird offset from OP. it maybe the that part was originally programmed with different DIA tool. and in order to compensate machinist used such offset.
Dunno have to run it to see.

Originally Posted by zero_divide

Good luck. you are gonna need one.

Basically designers create their models in a software that is made for that specific application.
Then its up to programmers to load the model into CAM software and create a CNC G-Code program BASED on supplied geometry.

I guess the problem with design software is that they are feature based.
IE: in SolidEdge's CAM extension drill toolpaths work well, because theres only few ways you can make a hole. But at the same time you can not have any additional geometry CNC programmers use all the time. Everything you are gonna need for toolpath needs to be designed. Because in there you dont really chain a contour, you select a feature and its then up to SolidEdge to decide what to do with it.

That's what i figured from watching demo by a guy who was trying to sell it to the company. On a test model he stumbled on a little open pocket which would take 10 seconds to program with "Regular" CAM software.
He spent 30 minutes and in the end toolpath looked worse than my 2.5year old daughter's picture of me.

Anyway regarding weird offset from OP. it maybe the that part was originally programmed with different DIA tool. and in order to compensate machinist used such offset.
Dunno have to run it to see.

Feature based machining. - YouTube

How did I do here? Did I stumble very badly? I found one area where I flubbed it. i put a pocket before the rough, so i cut air.. But I'm not a machinist, lol.

Maybe because you want to throw a dig at the OP with his situation, and speak about your "Regular" CAM package, you could throw up a model and do feature based Cam toolpathing so we can see it, then I can try with his BobCad and we can see that difference?

I think you said 10 seconds?

I just loaded this program 2 days ago... I did know BobCad, but this is a bit different. I have a little to learn about it.

I think he'll have pretty good luck with it.

I was not even talking about BobCAD in my post, i only told about my experience with SolidEdge's CAM extension.
You sound like i ate your cake. And all i was saying there is a reason CAM comes as a different package.

AUGUSTWEST,

When you are dealing with G41/G42 there are a few methods that are common.

1) Not to use them at all. Have the you CAM system ( BobCAD-CAM ) offset for center line.

2) Use Machine comp / Cutter comp Where the part is programmed on center and the offset is left up to the controller

3) Offset + Cutter comp, where your cam system offsets for center and you use G41/G42 ( this method requires you to adjust the D value on the control so that it's not for the offset of the cutter, instead it's used as wiggle room to bring a wall in to size)

If I am not understanding the question please let me know.



Al

Sample G-code from HAAS OEM Post

%
O1234 (BOBCAD3.NC)
(DATE - TUE. 07/26/2011 , TIME - 05:03PM)
(POST - HAAS VF)

(T1 - 0.375 DIA. ENDMILL ROUGH)
(T2 - 0.5 DIA. CENTER DRILL)
(T3 - 0.201 DIA. DRILL)
(T4 - 1/4-20 TAP)

G00 G20 G90 G17 G40 G80 G49
T1 M06 (0.375 ENDMILL ROUGH)
G90 S499 M03
G00 G54 X-0.75 Y-1.6875
G43 H1 Z1. D1 T2
M08
Z0.1
G01 Z-0.5 F2.3957
G41 Y-1.1875 F3.9929
G17 G02 X-1.1875 Y-0.75 I0. J0.4375
G01 Y0.75
G02 X-0.75 Y1.1875 I0.4375 J0.
G01 G40 Y1.6875
G00 Z0.1
Z1.
(NEXT CUT, SAME TOOL)
G55 X0.2125 Y-0.75
Z0.11
G01 Z-0.5 F2.3957
G41 X0.8125 F3.9929
Y0.75
G03 X0.75 Y0.8125 I-0.0625 J0.
G01 X-0.75
G03 X-0.8125 Y0.75 I0. J-0.0625
G01 Y-0.75
G03 X-0.75 Y-0.8125 I0.0625 J0.
G01 X0.75
G03 X0.8125 Y-0.75 I0. J0.0625
G01 G40 X0.2125
G00 Z0.11
Z1.
M05
M09
G91 G28 Z0
M01

T2 M06 (0.5 CENTER DRILL)
G90 S252 M03
G00 G54 X-0.4798 Y-0.6306
G43 H2 Z1. D2 T3
M08
G81 G98 Z-0.0331 R0.1 F0.5042
X0.5202
Y0.3694
X-0.4798
G80
M05
M09
G00 G91 G28 Z0
M01

T3 M06 (0.201 DRILL)
G90 S874 M03
G00 G54 X-0.4798 Y-0.6306
G43 H3 Z1. D3 T4
M08
G83 G98 Z-1.0604 R0.1 Q0.125 P.3 F2.6225
X0.5202
Y0.3694
X-0.4798
G80
M05
M09
G00 G91 G28 Z0
M01

T4 M06 (1/4-20 TAP)
G90 S400 M03
G00 G54 X-0.4798 Y-0.6306
G43 H4 Z1. D4 T1
M08
G84 G98 Z-0.7 R0.1 F20.
X0.5202
Y0.3694
X-0.4798
G80
M05
M09
G00 G91 G28 Z0
G28 Y0
T1 M06
M30
%

Originally Posted by zero_divide

You sound like i ate your cake.

I've been listening to what IO wrote for awhile now and still dont hear anything... I wonder how it sounds on your end. Like "Cake".

I was not even talking about BobCAD in my post, i only told about my experience with SolidEdge's CAM extension.

OIC.

And all i was saying there is a reason CAM comes as a different package.

How did the video look with that integration there?

Video looked like there is no "feature recognition" there at all.

Mybe we have different ideas about it but i do same sh*t every day on my regular Surfcam.
ALL i said was that SolidEdge did not provide support for any additional geometry like boundaries and other stuff.
You cant just draw a line in there and create a contour tool path in there.

You said you are not a machinist, are you even a cnc programmer?
Because that part in there wasnt machined with a great deal of sopfistication or even efficiency for that matter.

Originally Posted by zero_divide

You said you are not a machinist, are you even a cnc programmer?
Because that part in there wasnt machined with a great deal of sopfistication or even efficiency for that matter.

I'de be glad to put that part here on the forum, and you could show us all your "Expert Surfcam efficiency".

That adaptive roughing looked like pretty good HSM to me.

As one may see in the video, the features were just run through at default values and tools.... I am neither of those things. I suppose the values could be selected and manipulated to be a little better?

Thank u all very much for your insight and opinions it is VERY MUCH appreciated!! After day 4 got the TL-1(lathe) to do what its sposed to do for the most part. Previous owner crashed her good, super sloppy in X and Z when i get closed to spindle, X more than Z no biggie adjust geometry(LIE TO MACHINE) and get err done, good enough for what were doing. All parts are in house for our final products, still new dont wanna throw links up just yet im sure u guys understand.

Now as for the software, tried asking engineer today a few questions today to try and get us moving faster, he is using standard Solidworks 2012 edition and throwing that into bobcad, not sure of version,year,update etc....

My question was How long is it taking u to transfer your solidworks work to bobcad?? And from bobcad cant u just print out the code rather then trying to use R232 port junk?? If i had even a suggested program i could at least manually enter code and get stuff going rather than manually from scratch doing code, work offsets, tooling paths all that stuff in my head. Im a careful machinist and programmer, not slow i understand feed and speed calculations for what im going to be doing i was just taught right and dont like crashes!!

Company going through a transition right now, engineer relatively new he has never used bobcad so he doesnt even know where the "create code" icon is?? I dont either kinda messed around on a buddies surfcam for 20 mins is my exposure. From what i gather bobcad older version that belongs to company and new engineer is SUPER swamped trying to put all these parts thru solidworks and at least have prints for finished products.

Once again THANK YOU GUYS for your support and communication

Together we can overcome any obstacles keep up the good work!!
AUGUST WEST

when you know what version of BobCAD please post it.

ALDEPOALO,

I believe u understood my question and from your examples of 3 common ways just thinking about it option #3 sounds like thats conditions those programs were wrote under. Most of my career ive worked for the big monster companies and it kinda seems like theres a standard way of intergrating CAD/CAM to the machines. This honestly is the first time i have experienced option #3 in 13 years ive been making chips. I have a for instance question.

under option #3 conditions im running and endmill to do a counterbore profile and my finish I.D was undersized, HAAS CONTROLS SET TO DIAMETER NOT RADIUS FOR OFFSET. Should i change DIA geometry for that tool because I changed the (R) value under wear, now my dilemma was my offsets were not doing anything it was tool preasure that was making size acceptable. 2nd part undersized?? so ok ill run it again with tool pressure. Common way i was taught was if you are changing a (D) value in wear - is bigger and vice versa. I hope im explaining it right, im at home not sitting in machine in the zone!!

THX AGAIN

SORRY for (R) MEANT (D)

Will do find out tomorrow

Will also take a look at programs on mill and see if comp is in program, was told it was proven so i set her up and ran it, program VERY SLOW for aluminum LOT of stock removal with a .75 endmill and the 3.0 mill, using single line per pass rather than LOOP and depth per pass type in a single canned cycle line, ACTION may still take time but no reason to use all that code, trying to remain positive not really making that much $$ to be doing engineer work and on top all this on off time

Augustwest,

You are programming both a mill and lathe right?

Mainly I was speaking about the mill programing but the concept is the same for both types of machines.

On the mill, when you use "option 3" you wouldn't set the D value on the tool table to the diameter of the tool. If you did that when the controller see's the G41/ G42 it's gunna want to offset for half the tool.

When using option 3 you CAM system ( BobCAD CAM ) has already offset for half the tool. So the D value is just an adjustment value. .005 + or so, this way you can cut the wall measure it, then make the adjustment to the tool table to bring the wall into size. Sometimes this is called wear comp, not to be confused with the wear option on the tool table on the controller.

aldepoalo

lol my new friend!! ur awesome

OK sometimes i dont see big picture and now understand my engineer just has standard solidworks with no CAM option integrated so understand why there doing what they doing.Crazy stuff happened today.

Asked my supervisor if I could take a mem stick with "hot" parts home and let me take bobcad as well as I know more about what the end goal of bobcad is compared to anyone currently trying to use it. Im pretty sure EVERYONE there is intimitaded by me and im trying to be calm cool and collective about everything. LMAO seriously they look at me like im from mars or something?? And others just dont plain like me and im fine with that. For what is goin on were not bad shape I was handed 5 on my first day and after today i have maybe 2 days work left to finish all 5 protos.Without CAM and i havent ran a lathe in over 5 years so i feel o k bout it

Now heres the KICKER!! Guy whos been there couple years who thought he knew what he was doing on a cnc SUPER CRASHED the TM-2(new used mini haas mill) today Hes worried hes out soon, not my fault i know more than him and i show up to work. I was already buried in lathe work and heard him fire up the mill, i knew from how many beeps i heard he wasnt doin something right. All i heard was BIG THUD and sound of tool hitting the coolant tray!! All i said was that didnt sound good No one asked me anything all day about it from what i gather he just turned on mill and tried doing a tool change!! needless to say hole tool carousel is way fudged up, tools hanging out at 45 angle!! Just shook my head havent really got in there to look how bad it is. Perfect time for me to take bobcad and work on some programs..

AS FOR BOBCAD..IT IS V23 OF 09.....im sure im going to be doing work on it soon so any help how to transfer sworks files from mem sticks to bobcad would be great!! What i would like to know is do i need to know what format to have sworks files sent to memsticks first before i waste buncha time?? I can make more progress than what is getting done now

thx again poalo

handed 5 prints sorry