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Talk me out of buying MasterCAM

Diego

Plastic
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Hello, I'm trying to find a good CAM software for my company's TM-1 HAAS Mill. While initially researching I had eliminated MasterCAM as an option because I heard it was very pricey, but after receiving a very reasonable quote for only 6k + post processors and maintenance I am now very tempted to go with MasterCAM. I'm primarily also looking at VisualCAM and OneCNC, but why would I go with these cheaper options when I could spend a couple thousand more just once and get the most widely used CAM software?
Can anyone talk me out of buying MasterCAM? I know it isn't the Goliath it was 10 years ago but it seems like a very safe investment.
 
Unless you currently employ someone who knows MasterCAM, I personally can't see any reason to buy it over one of the other options.

As far as I'm concerned, it's a pretty antiquated software, and it only continues to be as popular as it is because so many people know it. It's also (again, in my opinion only) very counter-intuitive for new users, especially the younger guys who are just learning CAM.

You can get Fusion from Autodesk for $300 a year, and there is a huge online community of enthusiastic users. It doubles as CAD/FEA software, the UI is much more intuitive for new CAM users, and on and on.

I've heard some criticisms of it from the heavy users (but you're running a TM-1, so that's not you) and I've heard the lathe capabilities are pretty much useless right now, but for the most part, it's a more than capable program, and is also constantly improving as they receive user feedback from a very active community. (Try saying that about MasterCAM.)
 
I have only used MasterCAM since I partner with some other shops that use MC, and we exchange code and expertise. So, I can't say whether other packages are better or not.

I will say that MC is very expensive. Yes, you can get Mill for ~6K, but to get Mill 3D is another 6K, and even if you are not a mold shop, you may find (like I am) lots of cases where interpolating a surface is easier than tilting the part or finding a form tool. I also find MC fairly buggy and crash-prone given the price point. Again, I can't say the others aren't, just that MC is.

OTOH, I have CAM'ed up hundreds of mill jobs in the last year, and once I got past the quirks and figured out to back up my projects often, it works quite well.

Regards.

Mike
 
It's a little pricey, but there is a reason it's one of the best.
Antiquated? Not sure why someone said that. Have you used it recently?
Customer support is 2nd to none with Mastercam.

If you were only using it for lathe work, I would probably tell you to look elsewhere. But for milling.... it's very hard to beat.
 
You can get Fusion from Autodesk for $300 a year, and there is a huge online community of enthusiastic users. It doubles as CAD/FEA software, the UI is much more intuitive for new CAM users, and on and on.

I was looking into some other Autodesk softwares; HSMWorks and FeatureCAM specifically, but found their subscription service troubling. I have heard some good things about Fusion but am not currently looking at it. Would you recommend it over some of the other options I mentioned such as OneCNC or VisualCAM?
 
If you were only using it for lathe work, I would probably tell you to look elsewhere. But for milling.... it's very hard to beat.

I understand that MasterCAM does 4th and 5th axis very well but my machine can only handle 3-axis milling. Is MasterCAM not just as advanced as most every other CAM software for this purpose?
 
If you were only using it for lathe work, I would probably tell you to look elsewhere. But for milling.... it's very hard to beat.

I'll disagree with that statement. :)

There is nothing about MCAM milling that is unique or a game changer. Nor is there anything in it that is not commonly or readily available in other CAM systems. And, for the money they get one could easily do better on price while sacrificing nothing in capability by entertaining a number of other options.

There. How'd I do? :)
 
There is nothing about MCAM milling that is unique or a game changer. Nor is there anything in it that is not commonly or readily available in other CAM systems. And, for the money they get one could easily do better on price while sacrificing nothing in capability by entertaining a number of other options.

There. How'd I do? :)
This was my thinking as well. Although primarily, I am looking for ways in which other CAMs might beat out MasterCAM in some way besides price, like for example, OneCNC allows you to sell your seat. If the other CAM's are just as good as MasterCAM then I might have trouble choosing them due to the extra security and user base of going with a big, well known company.
But you did well thank you :)
 
I'm a Mastercam Guy. So, with that said, I'll admit I'm biased.
I've made the statement here before that I'll have parts in shipping before you're done programming.
Mastercam has at least 12 different ways of doing everything. It is Hugely powerful. It only gets better with each release.
I think with 2017 or 2018, Mill 3D is std. They don't have the Mill I, II and III any more.
I own two seats and have for over 20 years. I'm working on another seat as we speak.
The other thing to think about is the labor pool. Every programmer worth his salt can program in Mastercam. Try finding a OneCNC programmer. I worked at a shop during my bankruptcy that was a OneCNC shop. Doing pretty serious mold work and building assembly tooling from the dead easy to the pretty complex. We trashed OneCNC and bought Mastercam.
The thing about being intuitive is a double edged sword too. In my opinion, Mastercam kinda shot themselves in the foot with the new interface. They call it more intuitive, but it adds more keystrokes and mouse clicks over X9. If you're doing this for a living...
They did it to look more like Microsoft products, so the newbs would be familiar with it.
Service is second to none. The support community is second to none. Try going to Gibs, Featurecan, Surfcam forums...
Pay more, get more. This is really about ROI. How soon does this product, or any other package pay back my money?
 
I've only used MasterCam, so I can't compare it to other softwares, but in it's favor I can say the support network is quite good. If you have a question somebody can usually help pretty quickly on the Mastercam forums. And for anything in manufacturing I think available technical help is very important.
 
As far as I'm concerned, it's a pretty antiquated software, and it only continues to be as popular as it is because so many people know it. It's also (again, in my opinion only) very counter-intuitive for new users, especially the younger guys who are just learning CAM.

As a younger guy (25), I disagree with this COMPLETELY. I personally, nor anybody I know, have never had a problem figuring something out on MC. We've been through a couple cam softwares, and MC is by far my favorite.
 
I'll disagree with that statement. :)

There is nothing about MCAM milling that is unique or a game changer. Nor is there anything in it that is not commonly or readily available in other CAM systems. And, for the money they get one could easily do better on price while sacrificing nothing in capability by entertaining a number of other options.

There. How'd I do? :)

Why does it have to be unique? Sure you can do things in other cam programs that Mastercam can do, but do you have the same support? I highly doubt that.
Can you do it faster? Easier? Do you have as many options to do what you want in those other cam programs? Or are you limited to 1 or 2 ways to skin a cat?
Everyone has a different opinion. There are people that hate Mastercam and call it garbage.. I just laugh at those people because that tells me they never took the time to learn it. :)
 
Maybe it was just the re-seller we had, but our 'customer service' experience was a complete joke. I'm actually pretty shocked to hear that some of you guys have had good experience with MasterCAM from a service standpoint - I don't think I've ever heard that before, anywhere I went. And considering the price, and how many seats we had, I always found that completely infuriating.

But let's keep it realistic - the OP is running a TM-1, and it sounds like this is going to be the first time they/he has ever bought a CAM package. Fusion is going to be more than enough for anything they/he want to do.

I don't really get people's concern about subscription software services. $300 a year translates to 30 years of service, or you can pay $9,000 for a seat of MasterCAM and 'own' it.

Capability-wise, I've talked to a couple of guys who do mold work all programmed with Fusion. They're a newer shop, and figured they'd give it a shot because it's so stinking cheap. The guy who does the majority of the programming (formerly a MasterCAM guy) thinks he's just as fast with Fusion, and that it was a ton easier to learn.

I'm sure if all you currently use is MC, and you tried to switch, whatever program you go to would seem slow. But if you were to give it some time, I'd be surprised if you couldn't be just as fast, or faster, with a different CAM than MC.

Other options? If you already happen to have a seat of SolidWorks, there's a free 2.5 axis CAM add-in that ships with SW called HSMXpress. If you have Inventor, it's pretty much the same thing, but called HSM Express. Or you can buy full CAM package add-ins for either of those. Not sure on pricing though.

And maybe that brings up a good point: if you design/make your own stuff, and don't currently have a CAD system, you'll need to get one. It is agonizingly painful to draw/model anything in MasterCAM compared to an actual CAD program (again, my opinion.)

Does MasterCAM offer free trials? In the time we've been discussion options, you could download and try out Fusion, pretty much for as long as you want (because AutoDesk gives it away to a lot of people, and don't really police usage.) If you're honest, you pays your money.

Go give it a shot, along with any of the other software systems you're considering. I just know that it would take a world of convincing to get me to buy MasterCAM over a lot of other systems.
 
I'm running two TM-1s, and using Fusion 360. VERY reasonable, and I had a post developed to my liking by someone in Seattle. For my machines (no rotary axis) is works just fine!
 
As a younger guy (25), I disagree with this COMPLETELY. I personally, nor anybody I know, have never had a problem figuring something out on MC. We've been through a couple cam softwares, and MC is by far my favorite.

And that is really interesting to me. I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong, I just find it curious.

Did you have any other CAD/CAM experience before using MC? Or did the other guys who feel the same way?

The one thing that always comes to mind for me when having this discussion is when designers/engineers have to switch from Pro/E, Unigraphics, Catia to a SolidWorks or Inventor type (or vice-versa.) The type of system you learn on makes a huge difference in your approach to using the next software.

It's kind of like showing up to work one day, and being told you have to do everything opposite-handed. Given time, you can probably figure it out, and even get pretty good, but there's always a hand that's going to feel 'natural' to everyone.

Because I was a CAD guy for a long time before I ever used a CAM software, the programs that follow along the general CAD form I'm familiar with are the most comfortable for me (HSM and now Fusion.) I always struggled with MC - I felt like I was not only wrong-handed, but that the instructions were written right to left (instead of left to right) on top of that.

It's kind of working in AutoCAD versus working in the sketch function of SolidWorks or Inventor - the approaches look almost the same, but in reality, couldn't actually be more different.
 
Here is my experience of the absolute best CAM software ever loaded onto a PC.(sarcasm) Since that is what everyone tells me.

I stated out learning CAM in collage and that was back when X1 just came out. We had a few seats of Mastercam9 and X1 so I got to learn both. I never used them in a professional environment since the company I worked for used FeatureCam. So I spent 12 years using FeatureCam(self taught) and having every guy that waked in the door say things like "You guys don't have MasterCam? "Mastercams the best" "I can do that in 30 seconds on Mastercam" "If you had Mastercam you wouldn't have this problem" "MASTERCAM!! MASTERCAM!! MASTERCAM!!"

After that I took a job at new company who just got a Mastercam X7 addin within Solidworks and I was very excited to now use the "Best Cam Software EVA". And basically its a POS that is behind most CAM software out there today. My old FeatureCam was more capable and less buggy than the all mighty and more expensive Mastercam. My Mastercam and I say "My MasterCam" because I know most don't run into the problems I have because if they did no one would buy it. My Mastercam is buggy, crashes, and sometimes can't drive a tool path around part geometry correctly. In FC I could spot, drill, and tap a hole in one operation. MC I have to create a operation for each thing I do witch equals many more mouse clicks. MC is not stock aware on all milling operations unlike FC. MC is happy cutting air all day unless you use a more complex tool path. In FC all tool paths are Stock aware and it wont cut where there is no material automatically. Even the guys in the MC forums complain about that. I have been using it for 3 years now and we upgraded to X8. Same shit different version. I believe some of my bug issues and crashes come from not having enough horse power in my PC, but that leads me to my lack of customer support. No one will tell me the machine requirements to run MC inside of solid works. Mastercam says to use the Solidworks requirements(Witch I exceed) and solidworks tells me to contact Mastercam for the requirements. Due to having a lot of issues we cancelled our mastercam maintenance after X8. Our software provider was not very helpful on solving our problems and we very very slow and solving the problems they could. So no need to pay them for nothing. After cancelling they did send us both versions of X9 (stand alone and the SW addin) but I have yet to install or try them. I assume most of my problems were because its running inside of solidworks so when I get time I want to try the stand alone X9 and see how it does.

But until mastercam steps up the game they are NOT the best, realistic programmers on the Mastercam forums will tell you that. But you will have the MC cheer squad always telling you its the best and most of them have never truly used anything else. The problem with CAM is its expensive and takes a lot of hours to truly learn. So not many people have the experience with multiple softwares and can't give a good comparison. People also seem to be more fond of the 1st software they learned so anything after that just isn't as good.

Now that I dragged Mastercam through the mud I will spray it off with the hose.

I still used X8 and will continue to do so till I have time to upgrade my PC. Once I do that I will consider my options and most likely upgrade to the newest version of MC for 3 reasons.

1. I already know it
2. I can easily hire someone that knows it.
3. I pray and hope that they get there heads out of their ass and start adding more features to future versions.


But if I was not ever going to hire someone I would defiantly be looking at other options. I'm not saying buy FeatureCam and I'm not saying don't buy Mastercam.

I am saying DON'T buy Mastercam because its more expensive and everyone says its the best. Do you research, watch some youtube vids and cater the software to the kind of work you do and your programming style. Some Cams are better with mold work and some are better for simple job shop work.
 
And that is really interesting to me. I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong, I just find it curious.

Did you have any other CAD/CAM experience before using MC? Or did the other guys who feel the same way?

The one thing that always comes to mind for me when having this discussion is when designers/engineers have to switch from Pro/E, Unigraphics, Catia to a SolidWorks or Inventor type (or vice-versa.) The type of system you learn on makes a huge difference in your approach to using the next software.

It's kind of like showing up to work one day, and being told you have to do everything opposite-handed. Given time, you can probably figure it out, and even get pretty good, but there's always a hand that's going to feel 'natural' to everyone.

Because I was a CAD guy for a long time before I ever used a CAM software, the programs that follow along the general CAD form I'm familiar with are the most comfortable for me (HSM and now Fusion.) I always struggled with MC - I felt like I was not only wrong-handed, but that the instructions were written right to left (instead of left to right) on top of that.

It's kind of working in AutoCAD versus working in the sketch function of SolidWorks or Inventor - the approaches look almost the same, but in reality, couldn't actually be more different.
I went to a technical college for engineering before my bachelors, and there we learned in this order (AutoCAD-Inventor-Solidworks-Solidedge-MC). After I got a job I have used Gibbscam, MC, Camtool, and I think briefly EdgeCAM. To answer your question though, I didn't have any prior CAM experience, but the guys I do know have used FeatureCAM, NX at GE and EdgeCAM.
 
But let's keep it realistic - the OP is running a TM-1, and it sounds like this is going to be the first time they/he has ever bought a CAM package. Fusion is going to be more than enough for anything they/he want to do.
That's correct it is my first time buying a CAM package but the company I work for has a very experienced machinist who has used everything from featureCAM to BobCAM and who is doing everything by hand right now. We would also like to keep the option of upgrading our equipment open.

I don't really get people's concern about subscription software services. $300 a year translates to 30 years of service, or you can pay $9,000 for a seat of MasterCAM and 'own' it.
We are also a ~60 year old company and are looking to have this software for a long time. I have calculated the cost over 20 years and MasterCAM, OneCNC, and VisualCAM are roughly in the same price range.

Other options? If you already happen to have a seat of SolidWorks, there's a free 2.5 axis CAM add-in that ships with SW called HSMXpress. If you have Inventor, it's pretty much the same thing, but called HSM Express. Or you can buy full CAM package add-ins for either of those. Not sure on pricing though.
We currently have 2 seats of SolidWorks and I considered HSM for a long time before realizing how much it, and other Autodeak products cost long term.

Thank you for all the details :)
 
We currently have 2 seats of SolidWorks and I considered HSM for a long time before realizing how much it, and other Autodeak products cost long term.

If you're already running SolidWorks, just use the HSMXpress add-in. It's legitimately free, and a very decent CAM program for basic stuff that's currently being done by hand. And if you're making things in-house that are designed in SolidWorks, there's associativity between the models and CAM, which isn't always a huge deal, but can be helpful.

And yes, I know there are guys out there who are very quick punching code in on the controller (even multi-axis work) but CAM exists for a reason. And if all of your code is currently hand generated, I would suggest you don't need a heavy-duty CAM program right now.
 
My old FeatureCam was more capable and less buggy than the all mighty and more expensive Mastercam.
I wonder, did you get FeatureCAM before it got absorbed by Autodesk? Because my machinist also spoke highly of it. But less expensive than MasterCAM it is not. To get 3 axis milling we would have to pay $5000 A YEAR not including the $2000 post processor customization fee. Which quickly made me forget all of FeatureCAM's advantages.


I am saying DON'T buy Mastercam because its more expensive and everyone says its the best. Do you research, watch some youtube vids and cater the software to the kind of work you do and your programming style. Some Cams are better with mold work and some are better for simple job shop work.
I understand that MasterCAM is no longer considered the best, but the reason I am considering it is because of how reasonable the price given to me actually is. Granted we would be paying for a package without molding but at $6000 it's cheaper than even EdgeCAM and SolidCAM after only 5 years
 








 
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