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08-21-2010, 10:53 AM #1
Can Someone identify these collets and where to get them?
Our Shop just picked up a Cincinnati Mill. The collets it came with are not a complete set. I've gone through our catalog's and haven't had any luck identifying them. A local machine shop supplier told us they were just the old style, and that the new style didn't have the back sleeve on it. He told us it took an ER 40 collet. We ordered one, and it wasn't quite wide enough to fit. He then told us it was the ER 50. We ordered that one and it was way too big. Now he's saying its probably some other type at $400 each special order non refundable. I figured I'd check on here. I included a picture of the mill and the collet.
08-21-2010, 11:03 AM #2
Definitely not ER, has a straight shank and no groove at the widest part. Not a Y, Z or ZZ, either, again, has a straight shank. I'm betting this is the proprietary Cincy monoset collet that was used on some of those Toolmasters and Cincy T&C grinders.
08-21-2010, 01:05 PM #3
yes, mike c is correct.
08-21-2010, 02:03 PM #4
that is a Monoset collet....Hardinge sells them.....$$$
08-21-2010, 03:41 PM #5
Cincinnati Toolmaster & Monoset collet part numbers
I agree. That's a Cincinnati "C" series collet (NOT to be confused with a Van Norman "C" series collet). They were available in sizes from 3/8" to 1-1/4" and 10mm to 32mm. The Cincinnati part numbers are 181918-NN, where NN is the diameter in 64ths; that is 181918-24 is the 3/8" collet. For the metric collets, the part numbers were 181919-NN, where NN is the diameter in millimeters.
For sizes under 3/8", an adapter is used with a Cincinnati "A" Series collet. They are available from 1/8" to 1/2" by 64ths. Part numbers for inch collets are 181926-N, where N, again, is the number of 64ths. For metric it's 181927-N, where N is the diameter in millimeters. The "A" to "C" series adapter is part number 128929
Do not attempt to use them on anything which is very much under the nominal size of the collet or you can snap them. I'm not sure I would go much more than about 0.008" undersized.
As MM said, Hardinge sells them new. The call them "3CH" collets for the "C" series and "1CH" for the "A" series. The "3CH" collets sell for $135.50 and are available in sizes as small as ¼”.
You can go to the Hardinge website
Hardinge Inc. - Ecommerce Web Site
and type "Monoset" into the search box and you should get a partial list of what's available. (I hate the Hardinge website ).
For Hardinge 3CH collets, part numbers are 873700190NNNNN, where NNNNN is the diameter in ten thousandths of an inch; for example 87370019012187 is the 1-7/32" collet. Metric collets are part number 87370017NN0000, where NN is the diameter in minimeters. For 1CH collets the part number is 8859001900NNNN, where NNNN is the diameter in ten thousandths of an inch, as before.
There are a bunch of them available on eBay now for $50 to $75. If you are patient you can buy them for as little as $20. Search for "Monoset collets".
08-23-2010, 05:45 PM #6
I have a few of the C series collets. I sell these for 15.00 each. I also have a number of the A series which are smaller and adaptors form C to A. Feel free to give me a call and I can go over what I have.
440 773 9477
08-23-2010, 06:16 PM #7
You would lose a bit of spindle to table clearance, but if you can't find a full set of collets from Joe, you could get what you can and buy a straight shank ER collet chuck or similar, if you can find a large enough Cincy collet. 1 1/4" straight shank ER-40 would give you holding capacity from 1/8-1". You can get a decent chuck set with all collets for about $500.
08-24-2010, 09:01 AM #8
"C" series adapters were also available in MT2, MT3, & MT4. You can get an MT3 or MT4 ER40 collet chuck from CTCTools for $18: CTC ER40 x MT3 chuck
A set of ER40 collets is $72: CTC ER40 collet set
I have ER25 and ER32 chucks and collets from CTC and I'm very pleased with them. Shipping on ER40 tooling will probably cost nearly as much as the tools. They are based in Hong Kong and it takes about a month for stuff to arrive.
I thought I saw 1-1/4" straight shank chucks there, but I guess it was an ER32 chuck. Those run $20: CTC ER32 x 1-1/4" chuck. They also have them in ¾”, 1", 20mm, 25mm, and 32mm straight shanks. ER32 will get you capacity to 3/4", which is probably all you need. A full set of inch collets is $43 and they are a lot cheaper to ship.
08-24-2010, 01:40 PM #9
Don't think I'd be using a MT shank for milling, unless it has a drawbar thread. Sideload on a MT doesn't work out very well at all... ask me how I know. The $500 ER40 set would be a good name brand, but yes, you can get them cheaper.
08-24-2010, 03:00 PM #10
They do have a drawbar thread, it's M12. I'm not sure how to make use of that with a Toolmaster, but I'm sure something could be worked out.
I understand the hesitation to buy Asian imports. I've seen some real junk from eBay. I was very hesitant, but for the price I figured, "What the heck?". Since I got my first ER chuck from CTC I've gone back several times for more. I use them with my Hauser jig bore. I have quite a bit of Hauser tooling, but I keep reaching for the CTC ER chucks instead.
I'm not affiliated with CTC, just a satisfied customer.
08-24-2010, 05:21 PM #11
Had the same basic machine and was able to do all I wanted with 6 collets went from 3/8 to 1" by 1/8's for anything smaller I used a ER collet holder that fit the 3/4" collet . Bill
09-25-2010, 08:41 AM #12
FWIW I recently bought a used 1-C Toolmaster that came with an NMTB40 collet holder that uses DIN 6388A collets ("Ortlieb" type collets which are, apparently, the same as Hardinge HDO collets) and one 5/8" collet. These collets are available from Germany (and other sources) and are pretty pricey. Has anybody seen these on eBay?
I'm thinking of getting an ER40 collet holder and a set of ER40 collets.
In a post above, I saw a reference to a CTC ER40 Set. These CTC ER40 collets claim 0.0006" runout. Shars claims 0.0004 runout for their ER40 collets, but the CTC collets are considerably less expensive than the Shars.
Can anyone offer reasons why the Shars are much better than the CTC ones?
09-26-2010, 01:37 PM #13
If you're really concerned about runout, you should probably go with something like Rego-Fix; they're the guys that invented the ER collet. They claim less than 0.0001" runout on the collets.
I can't speak to Shars vs CTC; I've never seen the Shars collets. I don't know if the difference is specsmanship or fact. What I can say is that the set that I checked had total runout, collet holder, collet and my spindle, that was less than the runout CTC specified for just the collet. I didn't do a rigorous study, just a few quick tests.
Reeltor has a Shars 50 taper chuck and collets and he's pleased with them.
When considering cost, also take into account the higher shipping costs for CTC.
09-26-2010, 04:05 PM #14
I'll do that. Thanks for the reply!
06-05-2011, 09:20 AM #15
BTW I found Ortlieb-style collets at MSC some months back on sale. They are listed as "Quick Change Full Grip" collets. I think I paid less than $25 each for the ones I bought, then.
06-06-2011, 07:28 PM #16
Does your machine happen to have the 40 taper spindle inside of it? Looking at the head it is the model missing the varispeed drive, plus the power feed so I know you are getting to the cheaper versions. Go much cheaper in cost and they lost the 40taper. If you do have the 40taper underneath it pop out the Monoset collets and convert to an ER-40 set. As another poster said those monoset collets are very brittle, prone to breaking so I would avoid getting stuck with them unless I had to.