Cincinnati 2L

calvin b · Aug 11, 2011

Hey Ya'll,
I'm looking at a small cincinnati plain horizontal mill serial# 9a2p1e and I'm trying to get the weight on the critter so I can plan transport. Does any one have a good number on the weight ? Say like from a catalog or something..? I cannot find info on the 2L on the wonderful world wide web...
Thanks in advance for any info.
Stay safe
Calvin

johnoder · Aug 11, 2011

I'm guessing here. If "L" meant light, like over at K&T, maybe 3500.

If not, maybe 4500 or a tad more

J.O.

calvin b · Aug 12, 2011

Hello Mr. Oder, sir
Yeah that was kinda my thinking... it for all appearances appears to be a light M type horizontal.. I think it has 40 nmtb (?) for the spindle size and a 3 hp motor.. It's in good shape and the price is right.. My only 'dilemma' is do I take the small truck and trailer or the big one... Guess I'll just go with the big one and be done with it..
Thank you again sir
Stay safe
Calvin

rlbleeker · Aug 13, 2011

John's guess is probably pretty close. In '52 a 2ML was a 3HP machine and weighed 3635 while the 2MI was a 5HP machine and weighed 4625. This machine is a '37.

calvin b · Aug 19, 2011

Hello ya'll,
Well I went and picked the critter up.. and I can report that a 2L weighs 3220. The mill is safely ensconced in my shop.
Thanks again for your replies !
Stay safe
Calvin

calvin b · Aug 20, 2011

Howdy Ya'll,
Well now that I got this critter does any one have any suggestions as to what type of oil the transmission uses ? OR perhaps where I could find a reasonably priced manual ( one under 150 bucks )? I have vactra no# 2 for the ways but I'm not sure what to use internally.
Thanks once again for any help in advance
Stay safe
Calvin

calvin b · Sep 9, 2011

Hey YA'll,
In the interest of building a body of on going Cincinnati knowledge.. I received some manuals from the remnants of CMMc...
The 2L appears to be a stripped down/light weight version of mh series.
Book list dry weight as 2950.... Oil for gear box ( and almost everything else) is listed as cincinnati part # P.55 viscosity 200 to 220 ssu at 100°F which works out to mobil DTE BB ( 50wt). That's a little heavier than I expected so I'm glad I purchased the manuals rather than guessing..
Hope this helps some one
Stay safe
Calvin
PS the remnants of C.M.M.co can be reached via this link..
MAG - The Global Machine Tool Manufacturer: Online Parts Store

calvin b · Nov 8, 2011

Hey Ya'll,
Any of youse with a 2L or a 2mh know where the pipe plug is supposed be to add oil to the knee ( vertical) screw ? I have the manual and it says " replace pipe, plug in vertical screw base nut with grease fitting. " Only problem is I can't find a pipe or pipe plug anywhere on the column. Only a pin holding the bronze lead screw nut to the lock nut..
Thanks in advance for any help
Stay safe
Calvin

M.B. Naegle · Nov 8, 2011

We have a 2L but it's in storage and unforinantly will be for awhile (I'm guessing 5 years minimum). Anyone know where I can find an overram for one? :confused:

Our's is missing; had a homemade ram to mount a vertical head to. We have two other horizontals with the rams so if we can't find one, we'll just have to use it for un-supported cutting. I see lots of vertical attachments and the arbor supports online, but no rams.

svs · Nov 9, 2011

M.B.-I nabbed a few bits off a scrapyard 2L universal yesterday. Pretty broken up but the overarm looked OK, (no arbor support of course.) and it had most of a set of spiral drive change gears still in the secret compartment. SCORE.

P.M. me if you want me to confirm the ID, grab and ship the overarm somehow...

Calvin, I think that plug was low on the housing on my 2MH, I will take a look but as I recall it's slotted for a straight blade screwdriver, fits flush and likely painted over. Perfect camoflage.

Scott

calvin b · Nov 15, 2011

Howdy Scott,
You wouldn't of come across any trip dogs for the table in your scavenging ? If so and if youse can part with them I'd be interested. I only need the left hand side.. Thanks for the heads up on the plug.. I'll get the drop light and see if I can find the plug. And you are correct about the paint.. my machine has at least four coats, red, white, dark gray, light gray.
Thanks agian
Stay safe
Calvin
PS I find it odd that both the service/parts manual and the operator manual call for taking out the plug but it's not in the parts list.... an over sight perhaps ?

svs · Nov 16, 2011

Sorry Calvin, grabbed the vertical axis dogs, but others were gone, and they don't interchange from axis to axis.

My plug sits 4" above the mounting flange of the housing and it's facing to the front of the machine.

Got the overarm for M.B. yesterday, and poked around the pile till I finally found the "A" arbor support to go with it. Makes me wonder if the "B" support and other goodies are buried in the pile somewhere? I get way too much enjoyment from scrapyard archaology....it's a sickness I fear.

Scott

adammil1 · Nov 16, 2011

M.B. Naegle said:
We have a 2L but it's in storage and unforinantly will be for awhile (I'm guessing 5 years minimum). Anyone know where I can find an overram for one? Our's is missing; had a homemade ram to mount a vertical head to. We have two other horizontals with the rams so if we can't find one, we'll just have to use it for un-supported cutting. I see lots of vertical attachments and the arbor supports online, but no rams.

Hi M.B. If you are willing to wait I may have one for you if it is the same one that fits a 2M. We are planning on machining the ram off our Bridgeport to fit the 2M as the Bridgeport is truly shot. I was planning on keeping it as a spare but depending on how well the job goes it may be available. Perhaps if you had some surplus cutters and or tooling to donate it may help the job go faster.

As of now the plan is to make a fixture on the table where we machine a negative for the 50deg dovetail side of the Bridgeport dovetail to fit in. Then we would machine the other side of the ram to a 60deg dovetail. Remachine our fixture, flip over the ram machine down the other side and make the B-port ram fit the Cincinnati. If all goes to plan I don't think we will need the old.

Let me know. Right now it is in the railroad museum shop and we are scrambling to get the christmas trains out but we are hoping to get the job started sometime in the not too distant future.

Adam

calvin b · Nov 16, 2011

Hello Scott,
Well, I did an exploratory and no joy in finding the plug.. I did find a casting defect though.. I'm kinda baffled as I can see the oil reservoir by looking through the motor compartment. But I can't seem to find a away to get oil to it.. If worse comes to worse I'll just brush oil on the screw every time I use the critter..
As fur the dogs... I have them for the vertical and the short axis and I have the right hand one for the table.. Just thought it might be nice to have a complete set..
As fur scrounging serviceable machines I've done fairly well rescuing some from the scrapper.. ( my latest save is a Westinghouse air brake compressor )
Thanks for your input..
Stay safe
Calvin
Ps the pics are before and after the hunt for the elusive filler plug

svs · Nov 16, 2011

Calvin, you're scraping at the right height, housing mount pattern probably has four possible orientations so check the other three quadrants. I now vaguely recall intentionally pointing the plug to the front after having things apart for some work on the elevating nut.

After installing a zirc fitting I checked for interference, then threw that elusive OEM S.O.B. in the chip hopper.

Scott
..

abarnsley · Nov 16, 2011

The later 2 MI machines oil the elevation screw from the column!!!!

Look at that parts manual again, and see if pipe plug is on column..

The tank is in column on 2MI, and the head pressure of oil keeps screw lubed... (it flows through base, and up from bottom of screw...

calvin b · Nov 17, 2011

Hello Ya'll,
I also looked at the back of the column ( that's where I found the casting blip) with no joy also.. I assumed a two position orientation as the large screws holding the base are located by two locating pins to the right and left.. thus there are 'only' two positions the column can be 'front to back'.
I'm leaning to Mr. Barnslys explanation as the manual does not show a plug in the parts diagram yet in the lubrication maintenance section it calls for removal of the plug. May just be that my machine oils the column as Mr. Barnsly describes.. isn't the first time I've had a machine that doesn't match the manual.. Thank you all for your help..
Stay safe
Calvin

adammil1 · Nov 17, 2011

Hi Calvin,

Just wondering where did you get the manual for that machine and what versions does it cover? I am wondering if it would be of any use for the 2M? I know Johnoder was kind enough to send me an operators only manual but if you found a full blown exploded parts manual that I would like to see. I also wonder how much those machines changed year after year. It is quite amazing how similar a 1920's vintage looks to a machine built almost 40yrs later. I almost wonder if they just made incremental improvements year by year.

calvin b · Nov 17, 2011

Hello adammil sir,
I got the manual from mag ias ( the remnants of cmmc). Just give them a call (1-800-934-0735) and have the machines serial number handy. I think I paid something like 50 bucks for it. part no# is 3355583
This is a note in the forward to my operators manual ( not the parts service manual that I quoted the part number for )...
Note
This instruction book may also be used for the cincinnati No. 2 L-type milling machines, which have been temporarily withdrawn in the intrest of greater production of machine tools through standardization of sizes and types. OTHER THAN PHYSICAL DIMENSIONS, THE No. 2 L-TYPE DIFFERS FROM THE No. 2 MH IN ONLY TWO RESPECTS (1) IT DOES NOT HAVE A PILOT WHEEL ADJUSTMENT FOR THE OVER ARM, AND (2) THE COLUMN DRAIN IS AT THE REAR OF THE MACHINE.
Looking through the parts diagram and list there are a few parts that are slightly different.. The No. 2L is smaller and lighter the the No 2 MH.
With all that said I can see the lineage/ development that cincinnati milling machine co. had gone through in just 34 years from my old 'mill' to my 'new' mill. I, for one find progress fascinating..
Stay safe
Calvin

adammil1 · Nov 18, 2011

calvin b said:
With all that said I can see the lineage/ development that cincinnati milling machine co. had gone through in just 34 years from my old 'mill' to my 'new' mill. I, for one find progress fascinating..
Stay safe
Calvin

Calvin, on the other hand if you go here, Page Title what I find fascinating is how little transformation the line of Cincinnati horizontal's went through from the 1920's-1970's. It more or less was the same machine.

As for calling MAG. I will probably play with ours a little first when we get it set up, right now there are just so many panics we haven't gotten there yet. None the less once that happens, if everything works may not call, if not then get the manual.

BTW how is the quality from MAG? Is it a photocopy or original? At $50 that is cheaper than most of the guys on eBay probably, and from the source.

Adam

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