Cincinnati Hydrashift lathe easy question (hopefully)

flmbeaverdam1973 · Oct 19, 2017

Hello,

I am new to machining so this is likely a VERY stupid new guy question, however, I would like to know and UNDERSTAND the answer.

I am NEW to machining.

I have recently acquired a 10x60 Hydrashift, 3hp

I am trying to find all the metal I can to learn to turn. I am not trying to make huge cuts nor am I trying to set speed records. I am very happy at low to very medium speeds with very low feeds. I have leveled the lathe to take twist out down to about .0005 at the spindle-from a 12" piece of stock.

My question is, based on those cuts to level and subsequently working on a few pieces of practice stock, I am wondering about crossfeed travel or depth of cut. For instance, If I dial in .005 or 5 thousands of an inch I am getting that amount of diametrical cut on the workpiece. I seem to be seeing videos by the youtube stars that their feed does double the dialed cut; i.e. .005 or 5 thousands on the dial equals a .010 or ten thousands cut. While I like to learn from others for starters, I want to understand MY machine. I believe I have seen reference to two types of crossfeed adjustments, but my manual does not reference many specifics.

So, is there an actual difference and is one better than the other or just different and a need to know your machine?

Mike C. · Oct 19, 2017

Put a dial indicator on the carriage and contact it to the toolpost exactly parallel to the cross slide. Zero the cross slide dial, zero the indicator and move it any given distance. If it moves the same am0unt as the corss slide dial, the dial is direct reading and the diameter will be reduced by double the amount put in on the cross feed dial. If the indicator reads half the amount of the crossfeed dial it is diametral and you take the reduction in diameter as expressed on the dial. My personal opinion is that a machine with diametral dials is automatically twice as accurate as one without.

flmbeaverdam1973 · Oct 19, 2017

Mike C,

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to my post.

I am going to go to the shop and check your measurement. I think I have the test right.

flmbeaverdam1973 · Oct 20, 2017

Mike C,

Thank you VERY MUCH for taking the time to reply to my post.

I took your advice and positioned the indicator as you suggested, broke my cheap imitation noga in the process, but got enough of a setup to realize bingo I have a diametral crossfeed. This is very helpful and very informative and I appreciate your input.

**I hate to admit I have bought knowingly shit tools as I have inherited Starrett, B&S and Snap-On. Getting into this (for me) hobby/endeavor makes me fully understand the plight of America. Not to get deep, but there are not many of my generation (age 44) even thinking about how to make something, forget about the younger (unless it is cnc, 10,000 rpm yada yada) but your advice and wisdom really helped me and advanced my understanding, so THANK YOU

Mike C. · Oct 20, 2017

Quite welcome. Might want to check the compound slide, too. Some have diametral dials on both, some have diametral on the crossfeed and direct reading dials on the compound.

If you have diametral dials on both cross and compound screws, it makes the lathe extremely easy to work to very fine tolerances, if it isn't a worn out bucket of slop. Set the compound to 60 degrees and zero the crossfeed and compound dials in contact with the work. Now, set depth of feed with the compound and return the cross slide to zero. With the compound at 60 degrees, it only moves into the work half as much as the dial indicates. With a direct feeding dial, that makes it diametral. With a diametral dial, it takes half as much off the diameter as you put on the dial. Put .020 in on the compound dial, it takes .010 off the diameter. If divided into thousanths, you can now accurately set for .0005 cuts, or hit even .0003 by splitting the lines.

flmbeaverdam1973 · Oct 21, 2017

Mike C,

Thank you again tremendously for your insight and input. I will try this test to see what the compound actually dials in as a cut.

I think I got lucky finding this machine. I was told it came out of a Nabisco plant near Richmond and seems to be in good shape. However, I have had a heck of a time getting it running from the electric standpoint. The first Mitsubishi VFD I bought was faulty and outputting irregular 3 phase. Finally after getting a replacement, I realized I blew a step down transformer in the panel. I bought a wiring diagram from Cincinnati for $75 (rape) which does not really tell me much. Currently, I am waiting for the transformer from the supplier, so I have the power connected directly into the peckerhead on the motor. There is one remaining mystery once I get the transformer on where to bring power from it into a relay bank for controls.

I need to buy a new 10" chuck and find a steady rest, but I am loving getting the old iron running and learning to make chips.

triumph406 · Oct 21, 2017

If your new to using a lathe I would read up as much as you can on safety. Very easy to have a nasty (or even fatal) accident if your not careful. I don't let anybody use my lathes who doesn't have a lot of experience.

flmbeaverdam1973 · Oct 21, 2017

Triumph,

How right you are.

I have been watching all of the usual suspects on Youtube to visually learn what I can. I am also following the cardinal rules of no long sleeves, jewelry and safety glasses. I am not trying to push the machine either. I am happy going low and slow so I don't get into trouble. This is an awesome skill to learn. I actually bought it to chamber rifle barrels, but am learning all the fundamentals first before I tackle the first tube.

Are there any good ideas on where to get metals to learn to turn and thread? I have been trying on cast iron pipe but it is fairly cruddy due to thin wall and gets crushed when in the chuck.

flmbeaverdam1973 · Oct 21, 2017

Mike c,

I was finally able to do the test you suggested and luckily found out I have diametral dials on both the crossfeed and the compound. I will proceed to try seeing how fine I can manage to get some cuts.

Thank you again this is REALLY helpful.

triumph406 · Oct 22, 2017

flmbeaverdam1973 said:
Triumph,

How right you are.

I have been watching all of the usual suspects on Youtube to visually learn what I can. I am also following the cardinal rules of no long sleeves, jewelry and safety glasses. I am not trying to push the machine either. I am happy going low and slow so I don't get into trouble. This is an awesome skill to learn. I actually bought it to chamber rifle barrels, but am learning all the fundamentals first before I tackle the first tube.

Are there any good ideas on where to get metals to learn to turn and thread? I have been trying on cast iron pipe but it is fairly cruddy due to thin wall and gets crushed when in the chuck.

a danger is polishing parts with emery cloth strips, lots of potential ways to get wrapped up in the part. That's one nice thing about my HLV, it will stall before it kills me (i hope!) The graziano would suck me in no problem

SeaMoss · Oct 22, 2017

triumph406 said:
a danger is polishing parts with emery cloth strips, lots of potential ways to get wrapped up in the part.

This times two. You can lose a finger in a hurry, be VERY careful how you hold emery cloth. Your Hydroshift is a gear head, the belt won't slip. If you think 2 hp isn't much, just imagine two horses tied to your finger and pulling.

One other thing - don't be too sissy with the feed. Best book you can get is Craftsman, How to Run a Lathe. It explains tool geometry to a certain extent ... but the short version is, too light a feed means you are rubbing instead of cutting. Rubbing doesn't work that good

Elwood1968 · Oct 22, 2017

flmbeaverdam1973 said:
Are there any good ideas on where to get metals to learn to turn and thread? I have been trying on cast iron pipe but it is fairly cruddy due to thin wall and gets crushed when in the chuck.

Here in Michigan (and they have similar stores in FL), is a place called Alro Metals Outlets (Alro Steel | American Metal Supplier | Since 1948), which sells remainders and shorts of all sorts of metals and plastics. Great source for picking up small pieces of various alloys for making one-off parts or just testing with. Alro is a large steel supplier and their regular places and sales staff deal only in big orders, so the outlet locations are the place to go.

I don't see that they have any outlets in VA, but perhaps there are similar sellers in your area?

Elwood1968 · Oct 22, 2017

flmbeaverdam1973 said:
Mike C,

Thank you again tremendously for your insight and input. I will try this test to see what the compound actually dials in as a cut.

I think I got lucky finding this machine. I was told it came out of a Nabisco plant near Richmond and seems to be in good shape. However, I have had a heck of a time getting it running from the electric standpoint. The first Mitsubishi VFD I bought was faulty and outputting irregular 3 phase. Finally after getting a replacement, I realized I blew a step down transformer in the panel. I bought a wiring diagram from Cincinnati for $75 (rape) which does not really tell me much. Currently, I am waiting for the transformer from the supplier, so I have the power connected directly into the peckerhead on the motor. There is one remaining mystery once I get the transformer on where to bring power from it into a relay bank for controls.

I have a scanned copy of the electrical schematic for my Hydrashift (it was tucked into the pocket of the electrical cabinet door when I got the machine, so I didn't have to go to Cincinnati - $75!!!) which I can email you if you want it. My lathe has a two-speed motor (and two sets of spindle speeds on the selector dial on the front), so the wiring might be slightly different, but the three-phase electrical feed for all of the Hydrashifts that I've seen goes into the same place: the circuit interrupter, which is usually in the top right corner of the cabinet when looking at the machine from the backside. The circuit interrupter is nothing more than a switch that is interlocked with the cabinet door latch, so that everything in the electrical cabinet past the switch is supposed to be de-energized when the cabinet is opened.

I need to buy a new 10" chuck and find a steady rest, but I am loving getting the old iron running and learning to make chips.

If you find a factory steady rest, congrats! They seem to be hard to find for these machines. I've been looking for one (and a follow rest and taper attachment) for my 12-1/2 without success.

jeep534 · Nov 6, 2017

first is this like your lathe
FOR SALE Cincinnati Hydrashift 1" x 24" 3hp Lathe with lots of TOOLING - YouTube
second I am going to wade in here.
point 1. A VFD is used to control a motor directly not to put power to a machine. The controls push buttons contactors ect will not be used to control your lathe.

point 2 the vfd can be programmed to use a switch to give you off forward and reverse. The drive should be set to output 60HZ at all times (except for ramp up and down)

Point 3 if you insert switches/contactors between the motor and the VFD the VFD will not live.

Point 4 no wiring diagram is needed as you will not be using any of the old wiring.

Also I suspect you motor is not two speed but dual voltage

If you are confused by this feel free to pm me as i have quite a bit of experience with the Hydrashift and have machines in my shop running VFD's and off of 3 phase

Happy Hunting
archie

Mike C. · Nov 8, 2017

Yup. what Archie says. If you use a VFD, you have to bypass the machine switch and use the VFD as the motor controller. If you want to leave the factory electronics as-is, get yourself a 5hp rotary converter. Rotary has the added advantage of being able to be used as a power supply for more than one machine, so if you find other 3ph machines, you don't need to buy a VFD for each one. As long as they are under 5hp, you are good to go.

jeep534 · Nov 9, 2017

Mike C. said:
Yup. what Archie says. If you use a VFD, you have to bypass the machine switch and use the VFD as the motor controller. If you want to leave the factory electronics as-is, get yourself a 5hp rotary converter. Rotary has the added advantage of being able to be used as a power supply for more than one machine, so if you find other 3ph machines, you don't need to buy a VFD for each one. As long as they are under 5hp, you are good to go.

Mike, very well put
archie

cranium · Nov 9, 2017

flmbeaverdam1973 said:
Mike

I need to buy a new 10" chuck and find a steady rest, but I am loving getting the old iron running and learning to make chips.

I believe a 10" chuck is way too big for your lathe. Max is probably 8" or less. You can learn a lot simply by using a 4-jaw chuck exclusively when starting out.

Mike C. · Nov 9, 2017

I rarely use a three jaw, except on my South Bend 10 that has an adjust tru on it. Usually a cheap three jaw will do good to be within .030" of round if you just chuck up a part and start cutting. The four jaw is the most accurate, you just have to learn to dial it in. No big deal, doesn't take lojng and you can get work to under .001 in just a few minutes, once you get a little experience with it.

The adjust tru three jaw is just a three jaw chuck on a backplate with four setscrews so it can be adjusted like a four jaw. You grab the work in the chuck and then dial in the work, just like using a four jaw. Great thing is, once dialed in, it stays centered, as long as you are working with the same diameter. If you want to cut a dozen little parts out of a stick of say 1/2 or 3/4" stock, you can dial it in on the first one and then make that part, cut it off, unchuck and slide the bar for the next one and never have to check to see if it's centered.

As said above, on a 10" lathe, 6-8" three jaw is about max. You won't get full jaw travel on a 10" chuck without hitting the ways or carriage wings. It will leave a range of size you can't work with the jaws set for outside or inside chucking.

Cincinnati Hydrashift lathe easy question (hopefully)

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