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collets for a VN no.11 mill

nic344

Plastic
Joined
Jun 24, 2017
hello everyone,im new to your web sight,and imand horizo a mechanic by trade not a machinist so I am green.
yesterday 6-23-17 I bought and brought back to the shop a van norman no.11 mill.a chain driven vertical
and horizontal mill. I bought it from a woman whos father had passed and I found out about it because of a
car that was being sold also. heres the first question there is only one collet and one piece of tooling with this machine. unfortainatly she sold a tray of collets to a man that was there a couple days before,
from what ive read so far the no. 11 uses a tapered C collet and I would think there hard to find. is there another collet that will work ive been reading every thing I can find about the no.11 and theres not as much info.out there as the no. 12 and some others...any help would be appreciated,thanks nic.
 
The No. 11 should use the same "Van Norman C" collet that the No. 12 uses. Hardinge still makes the collets, but they call them a "5V" collet (V for Van Norman). You can find them on eBay, but they are pretty pricey these days, it looks like they are going for close to $50 each. New Hardinge 5V collets are $117.50:

https://www.shophardinge.com/productGrid.aspx?catID=8391

I would love to see photos of your No. 11.

Cal
 
Never even heard of a No 11.

The No. 11 should use the same "Van Norman C" collet that the No. 12 uses. Hardinge still makes the collets, but they call them a "5V" collet (V for Van Norman). You can find them on eBay, but they are pretty pricey these days, it looks like they are going for close to $50 each. New Hardinge 5V collets are $117.50:

https://www.shophardinge.com/productGrid.aspx?catID=8391

I would love to see photos of your No. 11.

Cal
 
One showed up in the Antique Machinery forum back in 2011:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/van-norman-11-no-kidding-233294/

The guy that posted the photos, Don Hartwich, was also from Florida, so it may well be the same machine.

It's somewhere between the No. 1/2 and the No. 12. The patent on side cover dates to 1910. It has a motor in the base with chains that drive the table feed mechanism and a quick-change gearbox mounted on the right side of the column, next to the ram.

Cal
 
Van Norman C (5V) tooling is expensive, no way around it. Good news is that you don't need a full set of collets. 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" collets can handle about anything you can imagine, as you can get various endmills and other tooling with those shanks. Even a drill chuck with 1/2" straight shank. For some other stuff, if you have a lathe, cheap and common R8 tooling can be cut down and a spindle adapter made to use a home made drawbar.
 
My Van Norman is just a bit newer, but I love the feed wheels on yours! Since I do need 1 wheel style table feed handle, could you check out overall diameter, thickness of the wheel ring & offset from the mount to the outside of the feed wheel? Yes, I believe it will take making my own to fit this part onto my mill. May as well have some fun with it by going retro on a not so retro machine! Mine is a 59 model. I thank you in advance for whatever information you could spare. Very nice looking machine that I hope to enjoy watching in service under your command!

I should also add that the Van Norman 'C' (5V) Collets do come available frequently. The no2 Van Norman (50V, I think, do not come available much at all). While you could collect the collets along the way, why not lean toward making your own adaptor to fit R8 or even 5C collets? I see myself doing that very thing - 1 for posterity & the other for getting the part at hand made. Put it to use for your needs!
 
I'm not sure what Mike was suggesting, but an R8 collet won't fit into a Van Norman "C" spindle. R8 collets have an OD of 0.95", the ID of a "C" spindle is about 0.85". I suppose you could grind down the OD of an R8 to slide in, but you would still need some sort of taper adapter for the end of the spindle. If you're going to regrind R8 collets to fit a C spindle, you may as well just make "C" collets. Any sort of external R8 or 5C collet adapter is going to be pretty long and reduce the working envelope of a Van Norman No. 12 (or similar) quite a bit. It's already pretty limited: about 12" from the end of the spindle to the table, with the knee all the way down and you loose 3 or 4 inches to your vise.

An adapter for ER-series collets would be a better choice. ER-25 is a pretty handy size for machines of that size.

Cal
 
Never even heard of a No 11.

finding 5v collets today will be quite a challenge.i have a vn12 and was fortunate to find a guy on the internet selling collets, this was 20 yrs ago. i bought the complete set up to 1/2. i made 5/8 ,3/4 and 1 inch weldon shank holders as well a oneinch shell mill and shaft for the horizontal cutter.i found prints for the collets on line.as well a manual for the machine. these are quite rugged and versatile machines. i have also adapted a bridgeport m head to the overarm shaft. the addition of a quill has made this much more enjoyable to use. i do a lot of aluminum work and the little m head works well for that.if i were starting today i think i would follow the advise of cal haines and adapt an er collet system to this machine. good luck and have fun
 
"I'm not sure what Mike was suggesting, but an R8 collet won't fit into a Van Norman "C" spindle. R8 collets have an OD of 0.95", the ID of a "C" spindle is about 0.85". I suppose you could grind down the OD of an R8 to slide in, but you would still need some sort of taper adapter for the end of the spindle. If you're going to regrind R8 collets to fit a C spindle, you may as well just make "C" collets. Any sort of external R8 or 5C collet adapter is going to be pretty long and reduce the working envelope of a Van Norman No. 12 (or similar) quite a bit."

Just as I said, R8 can be CUT DOWN, as in set up in a lathe and turned to the proper diameter, then the correct angle faced on the taper. You can't do that with collets, but you can turn down other tooling like shell mil arbors, drill chuck arbors, Weldon style endmill holders, slitting saw arbors and even ER collet chucks. I modified a lot of that type tooling for the VN6 at the museum and my VN 12 I had at home.

The R8 tooling is dirt cheap and usually has a nice soft shank that cuts easily. Also, as I said, you will need to make a thick step washer to go in the top of the spindle to accomodate the 7/16x20 drawbar for the R8 tooling. The R8 stuff is too short to turn the thread for the VN tubular drawbar, so just use what is there. A short length of 7/16-20 threaded rod with a nut welded on the top makes a great drawbar.
 
If a lathe is available, end mill holders can be turned from steel , I suppose collets could be made too, but not by a guy with my limited experience!

I concur with Mike, a few collets in the popular sizes will do most of the work, seems like most of the odd size end mills all have standard size shank.
 
Wow i didnt know i had any responses to my van norman post. I apologize for not responding...yea you guys got it right...this machine was Don Hartwich's along with some other mahinery and shop equipment i bought from his family after he passed. The pictures on the link you posted are pictures of this mill.im getting use to the mill as far as operating it. I havnt splined any axles yet but its comin..thanks for posting donalds thread im going to share it with his daughter...i also have his surface grinder.grand rapids no.62. I dont think i can use it for what i wanted don used it for sharpening the tools he used for sharpening blades.lots of blades.ill probably post it for sale in the near future if any one is interested.thanks again. Nic citrus co. Fla.
 
Sorry about not getting back to you...didnt know there were responsives..some one posted a thread with a link to pictures of my mill...look for don hartwich on this sight.if you need measurements ill try to help.thanks
 








 
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