Gorton Mastermill 1-22 quill spring

I purchased a Mastermill 1-22 from HGR, Nice machine but as with most machinery there it has a minor problem. The quill spring is broken! I started contact just about everyone I found that make similar springs, one referred to another and so on but I found nothing. Looking in McMaster Carr I found the same thickness spring stock 2" wide. Mine is 1.875 wide. I managed to cut it to size with a carbide endmill, it was smooth and even, I was surprised on how well I was able to trim it! I measured the length, made an arbor and wrapped it. Looks very much like the original. Inserted it in the housing then in the mill. I have all the manuals having purchased the 3 on ebay. Removal and replacement is easy! BUT when I adjusted it to just about hold the quill at the top of the travel with nothing in the spindle the amount of force need to move the quill down is somewhat more that I am accustomed to. I have a Cincinnati Tool Master, the pressure needed to move the quill is constant, don't seem to increase or decrease. When I remove my hand the quill remains in place, don't move enough for the hand feed to engage.
My question is did I make the spring wrong or does the 1-22 spindle return like one on a drill press? The pressure needed is about the same as a drill press and quill returns like the ones on drill presses. Not much force to bring the quill down but constant increase is required, is that normal for this machine?

I'm sure the spring is similar to the one used on the 9-J mill. if it is, the spring expanded length is about 3-1/2 to 4" long with only two maybe three coils from my memory. Yeah, when assembled, it should keep the quill in the up "home" position. Did you make sure the housing bore is good and clean and wiped down with a light machine oil? Likewise on the quill? I will say, they are much more precision than a Bridgeport quill ever thought of being when new.

Hi 4GSR; My spring was 28" long. If my memory is correct it's wrapped 7 coils. Oh yes it far better than a Bridgeport! It weight is twice that of a Bridgeport. Has 12" cross travel. Both X and Y has backlash adjustment on the nuts. Mine has variable feed rate in the the table and down feed have DC motors and speed adjustment electronics. Also variable speed spindle but it's the typical variable belt drive. Really nice is a power knee, no need to crank the elevation handle! Came with Sony DRO. Don't seem to have been used much, scraping is visible on entire length of scraped surface.
Yes I cleaned the housing before inserting the spring and was sure to get it well lubricated.

But did you clean the outside of the quill up? It's been awhile since I worked on mine but I recall the spring wouldn't hold up the spindle very good so I wound it up a little further. Should be able to tweak it more to your liking. Mine stays put till about half way down and then the spring pressure is enough to lift it up somewhat. There is also an allen bolt that tightens the housing around the quill.

Mine is not like that Morty. Has an interesting quill shaft in that it protrudes out both sides. The photo like image in the manual has the quill handle on the left side. The machine I got had no handle but does have a collar attached to the shaft with holes similar to the quill handle attachment on a Bridgeport. I did buy and is in the mail a handle that I think works similar to the one on a Toolmaster in that pulling it sideways will remove the pins from the collar. Since my Toolmaster has the handle on the right I'm accustomed to it being on the right but there have been times when a left sided handle would have been nice!
Getting back to the spring. The handle shaft is quite long and has about a .040 slot about 5/16" deep the entire length. The spring has a tab bent at 90 degrees that fits into the slot on the shaft. a collar large enough for the spring to fit inside with a bearing also in side of it. A set screw similar to the dog point setscrew fit's into a hole on the outer coil of the spring. The dog point is slightly tapered with the larger diameter of the taper on the end and the smaller part near the threads which I assume is done to keep the spring from coming off. That collar/sleeve with the spring and bearing fit's into the head and held in location by another dog point set screw that fits into holed drilled in the circumference. The manual stated the holes are spaced 45 degrees but there are so many I'm thinking it's more like 22.5 degrees. On the end of the collar/sleeve is two hols for a spanner wrench. Tension it adjusted by backing out the dog point set screw while holding assembly from spinning with the spanner wrench then turning the wrench in the direction needed to change the tension then turning the set screw so that the dog point enters one of the holes. When I removed the broken spring I cleaned the sleeve plus checked for any burrs. I also cleaned the hole that the spring assembly fit into though it was not needed being very clean!
The problem I have is that the spring works too good. It is very smooth. When I adjusted the tension so that the spindle is just barely held in the all the way up position with nothing in the spindle it operates like a drill press, when the handle is released the spindle retracts to the completely up position unlike the handle on my Toolmaster that will remain in what ever position it was when released. I was wondering if this is normal for the 1-22 Gorton

Up-Date I know very little about clock spring making. Not sure if it will work but I have the spring very tight and moved the spindle to the down position. Thinking that might weaken the spring a bit. Not sure if that will work and do nothing more than requiring the minimum tension adjustment to keep the spindle in the up position be increased. Not sure what to do, the spring I made looks exactly like the broken one. Break was only the tab on the end that fits into the spindle and at the other end where the hole is to retain the spring. Can't figure why it broke in 2 places. In most of the quill springs I replaced they had only one break!

If it helps any my Series II Bridgeport (the bigger one) just has enough tension to stay up but gets pretty tight when extended. I'd rather have that than it not it staying retracted.

Thanks for the info MortyNTenon. I guess I'm kinda of spoiled by the Cincinnati ToolMaster. Don't seem to be much difference in pressure needed on the handle no matter what position it is in, however it will not retract just stays when it was. One thing nice about the ToolMaster is no matter how much weight is on the spindle it tends to stay where left because the feed is automatically engaged when the handle is released. Kinda nice when using a large boring head. My 2 Moore Jig Borers have counter weights to keep the spindle in place, don't retract but is very sensitive and easy to use small cutting tool in it.
Don't seem that tightening the spring then locking the spindle down so that the spring is near max did anything to change anything, When I readjusted it after a few days so that it will barely hold the spindle in the up position the pressure required to bring the spindle down remains the same. I'm thinking that any change was offset by adjusting it to keep the spindle up.

Froneck said:

One thing nice about the ToolMaster is no matter how much weight is on the spindle it tends to stay where left because the feed is automatically engaged when the handle is released. Kinda nice when using a large boring head. My 2 Moore Jig Borers have counter weights to keep the spindle in place, don't retract but is very sensitive and easy to use small cutting tool in it.

Click to expand...

There, to me - is a very, very desirable situation.

Gave my Walker-Turner DP a primitive friction clutch instead of a spring over 40 years ago.
That gave me a spindle that moves easily, down or up, dasn't fight me, and stays where I left it. clearing chip require positive upward pressure. BFD, at least I pick how much and how fast. That was not not hard, was it?

"Sensitive" drilling is nearly as nice as a Hamilton. Use of a 6" hole saw on galvanized sheet metal is less hazardous. Works for me, all around.

As the Quartet mill and Alzmetall AB5/S DP are "finished up" their springs will be removed as well. Same reason.

I decide where the spindle is meant to be.

Better things to do than arguing with an ignorant coil spring!

That's a good idea thermite, I was thinking of doing that after reading you post. But then I thought to myself if I make a friction clutch it would indeed be a uniform feel when pulling the spindle down but then up will he harder that if there was no spring. I would have to overcome the weight of the spindle plus the friction created by the clutch. I have a few drill presses, the amount of pull needed to over come the spring is very low but then the spindle is much lighter than the one in the Gorton. I'm sur4e one of the reasons they have a 1-7/8" wide spring is due to spindle weight. I haven't taken my Toolmaster apart in a while but if my memory is correct the width of the spring is 3/4" maybe 1" but not more. As it is now quite a bit of tension is adjusted on the spring to keep the spindle up, let go when pulled to the max down it will not return completely to the up position but only about 1/4" short but will remain up if pulled to to max up travel.

Froneck said:

That's a good idea thermite, I was thinking of doing that after reading you post. But then I thought to myself if I make a friction clutch it would indeed be a uniform feel when pulling the spindle down but then up will he harder that if there was no spring. I would have to overcome the weight of the spindle plus the friction created by the clutch. I have a few drill presses, the amount of pull needed to over come the spring is very low but then the spindle is much lighter than the one in the Gorton. I'm sur4e one of the reasons they have a 1-7/8" wide spring is due to spindle weight. I haven't taken my Toolmaster apart in a while but if my memory is correct the width of the spring is 3/4" maybe 1" but not more. As it is now quite a bit of tension is adjusted on the spring to keep the spindle up, let go when pulled to the max down it will not return completely to the up position but only about 1/4" short but will remain up if pulled to to max up travel.

Click to expand...

Yazz but ..the other part you mentioned was the COUNTERWEIGHTS on the other machine.

Now.. Hong Kong underground - look across the platform / track gap whilst awaiting the next train, see a frame with pulleys and a stack of what look like barbell weights and might be exactly that. Those are keeping the overhead power wire taut. And it moves as the pantograph pickups atop the cars traverse under it.

Until the cable or chain gets overly long, weights and pulleys have nearly the same tension at all points of travel.

Springs need a great deal of engineering, tapers, width changes, and never quite get there, regardless. The research was done on clocks. Lots of it.

Counterweights were HARD when high-tech was a mini-bicycle chain or a dog-chain.

No longer. We now have some great stainless cables, Kevlar, flat steel tape - all sorts of things we can do the job with and even keep clean and out of harm's way.

The trick is to NOT try to implement a "straight" pull.

Use the shaft already there, just as the spring does. Perhaps add an intermediate one so you are working with multiple wraps winding on and off- windlass drum style and getting TF out of the way, perhaps down the back, and perhaps under a sheet-metal shield or in Greenway conduit.

My Walker-Turner didn't need that help. Friction was enough.

My Alzmetall AB/5s is not your average Horrer-Fright drillpress.
Over 4,000 Avoir, and it is a "column" drill, not a radial. It will need counter weighted as the spring is shed.

The Quartet mill as well. Probably.

The sensitive touch? I'm spoilt by even the Walker-Turner DP!



BTW. you are an electron-pushing guy. The ultimate to me would be one of the Brother's Bodine's "Torque" motors. I used those to move data tape, paper, etc. in designs done long ago. Many times, they were also geared.

Loved the little rascals as "infinite springs" that did not snap, nor alter tension. Those could be dialed-in to a point in their range with an ignorant rheostat or variac.

Look at how automobile power steering used to sense need of assist with a lighter toque shaft and stops? One could reverse up/down bias from operator pressure on the manual control, and seamlessly. Someone must have already done this, and more than once!

BTW - an application where commonly used? Elevator door actuators.

I did reply but don't know what happened to it, maybe I forgot to click on Post Reply.
Those are good ideas but more work that I want. Right now I don't have time to think plus a few machines I want to get running. I picked-up a very nice Portage HBM, doesn't show mush use, like new scrape marks on all the ways! Plus all axis DRO but it's sitting because I don't have time.
The Gorton mill I have 1-22 is similar to The Bridgeport type mill probably more like the Series 2. Adding a counter weight will not be easy! I'm trying to repair the broken spring since all that was broken was the attachment on both ends, odd that it broke in 2 places but if I manage to get the tab bent that fits into the slot cut into the shaft I will loose only about 1" of a 28" long spring. If anything it will give me an idea of what the original was like.

Froneck said:

I did reply but don't know what happened to it, maybe I forgot to click on Post Reply.
Those are good ideas but more work that I want. Right now I don't have time to think plus a few machines I want to get running. I picked-up a very nice Portage HBM, doesn't show mush use, like new scrape marks on all the ways! Plus all axis DRO but it's sitting because I don't have time.
The Gorton mill I have 1-22 is similar to The Bridgeport type mill probably more like the Series 2. Adding a counter weight will not be easy! I'm trying to repair the broken spring since all that was broken was the attachment on both ends, odd that it broke in 2 places but if I manage to get the tab bent that fits into the slot cut into the shaft I will loose only about 1" of a 28" long spring. If anything it will give me an idea of what the original was like.

Click to expand...

Well I did have both watch and clock "makers" on staff for ten years, and I learn from my staff as much as from my next-highers, (the CFO, those years, FWIW) so I've annealed the ends, drilled them, filed curves and tapers, bought coil stock from the supply houses and made from scratch, you name it.

I just don't much like springiness distracting me when I'm trying to "feel" what a drill or tap is trying to deal with. Payback is damned rare breakage and very long edge life. Worth it for me.

That hor bore oughta keep you out of pubs and whore-bores for at least another half a lifetime.

Enjoy!

I have a project to list all my projects but didn't get to it yet either! Thermite you have more experience with spring than I, Actually I know very little, next to nothing! When I made my spring, material was available in 1095 and 1075 both .035" thick same as the stock spring. I ordered and have both. I opted to use the 1095 and as I said it's adjusted to hold the spindle at the top, when it recoils it's short about 3/8" or so but when pulled down to it's max (4") it's quite heavy, about the same amount required to lift the spindle with the handle when there was no spring. If I was to use the 1075 will that help? I know it will not be as strong as the 1095 but if adjusted as I did the other will the force needed to bring the spindle down be lighter?

Froneck said:

I have a project to list all my projects but didn't get to it yet either! Thermite you have more experience with spring than I, Actually I know very little, next to nothing! When I made my spring, material was available in 1095 and 1075 both .035" thick same as the stock spring. I ordered and have both. I opted to use the 1095 and as I said it's adjusted to hold the spindle at the top, when it recoils it's short about 3/8" or so but when pulled down to it's max (4") it's quite heavy, about the same amount required to lift the spindle with the handle when there was no spring. If I was to use the 1075 will that help? I know it will not be as strong as the 1095 but if adjusted as I did the other will the force needed to bring the spindle down be lighter?

Click to expand...

The alloy and its temper will not solve the basic challenge. Springs only approach "linearity" over a narrow portion of their range. Nor does one necessarily WANT them linear. Sometimes the exact opposite - a progressive curve is required. See use of tapered wire in auto suspension coils and "volute" springs for armoured vehicle suspensions.

If you wanted to extend the range over which the tension on the operating handle felt about the same, you would need a different type of spring than that basic spiral - and/or a taper in the width of the material. The "linearized" spring might have to be about four times the present physical size - though not necessarily in a spiral coiled form, nor located right at the hub.

A long enough torsion bar, where "bar" can be wire-size, better-yet, a "bundle" of wires, works well. So, too bundles of rubber bungees. These may fit a VW front suspension in tubes, the torsion bar suspensions used on armoured vehicles and Packard motorcars long before MOPAR used shorter ones and pretended to have invented an art already old. Trailers use these as well. Quite often, a lever or geared arrangment is used to match range of movement needed to the characteristics of the torsion "device" - be it rod, coils, or rubber.

Look under the bonnet or boot lid of enough vehicles at the hinge area, you will have seen several different example of these, geared sectors made as stampings once as common as linkages.

Even better examples of means to hold nearly constant force can be found inside the DOORS of a motor vehicle. An auto body repairman of even a few years experience has seen many approaches to meeting the challenge of moving the window glass up and down. Most involve gear sectors and levers, cables, and tensioning spiral springs. I started early enough at that to have also seen compressed air and even hydraulic actuators. A friend's Dad had a 1940's Oldsmobile convertible that operated the windows and power top with "juice" (and leaked rather badly in its old-age!!..). Ford tried hydraulics again on a Lincoln Continental in the 1960's - even for the windscreen wipers, IIRC.

There are, IOW, "many" solutions.

Thin Bronze or Stainless cable to counterweights AND ALSO basic tensioning springs to reduce risk it jumps out of a groove is not as hard to route and protect as it may seem. Pulleys and sheaves may be fully-enclosed in cylindrical housings. The straight runs between those and also fully-enclosed change-of-direction hubs may also be fully-enclosed in small diameter conduit. One of the cheapest and easiest solutions to implement, actually.

Then, too, very, very effective "push-pull" operating cables exist - factory-built in flexible housings. Not El Cheapo lawnmower speed control. Seriously stout and durable goods meant for steering an outboard motor to controlling an Earthmover to operating control surfaces on aircraft.

Whether stealing an idea or adapting any of these things is worth any bother whatsover is up to the end-Luser, of course.

For most of us? It truly is NOT worth it.

But not for shortage of options. Nor even shortage of money. Nor even shortage of time.

Shortage of any genuine NEED far more often!

Thanks for the info Thermite. The spring is as I thought it would be that changing the strength of the material will not change much. Adding a counter weight might be doable in that I could drill a hole at the pivot point of the head tilt option and wrap a cable around the shaft but the ides make me tired just thinking about the work! I'm going to leave it as it is. I have another issue I want to deal with. Overall the machine seems to be well made and the powered knee I'm sure going to like! But I can't understand why they did almost nothing to cover the cross feed screw. It's nice to have backlash adjustment on the cross feed nut but why not a sliding cover rather than a rubber way protector. Works but not well plus it covers the graduated dial that I will probably never use anyway since it's equipped with a Sony DRO. I have thoughts of making a telescoping type way cover for the front and the accordion type for the rear.
Since I haven't powered it up yet due to the motor being rewound 480VAC only. I will concentrate on that so as to be sure that the machine does work!