Just picked up a Kearney & Trecker 320TF

I Picked up a K&T 320TF Horizontal mill w/ the ram and vertical mill setup today up in the metroplex. 16x72" table, 50 taper on both spindles. Came with a fair number of toolholders, 2 face mills, 4 horizontal arbors, and a bucket of various cutters for the horizontal arbors. I'm hoping to get a little more information, especially about the TF knee and the ram and vertical spindle, as it seems that a lot of the features of the TF are similar to the smaller single knee screw machines that seem to have much more readily available documentation. If I understand correctly, that number stamped above the motor housing is the serial, 56-2750-26-1. I see no other model or serial information on it apart from motor data plates.

A couple hours of 1" solid roller-pinch bar action and a rollback wrecker got it moved with little fuss and set in it's semi-permanent location. It may get turned 90 degrees, don't know how that's going to work out just yet. I've spent a few hours cleaning and removing chips from unmentionable places thus far, but that's about it.

As of right now, the issues I'm trying to sort out are firstly finishing the 240v conversion someone else 'started'. All the motors have been switched, the heaters on a couple of the contactors have been bypassed, the coolant pump is hardwired on, etc, etc. It appears that all I should have to do besides change out the contactor heaters is replace the main motor contactors for the next size larger, as they're rated for 15HP @240vac. We shall see tomorrow.

I bought the machine from a nice Thai gentleman who purchased it with a few 3-axis CNC milling centers as a package deal, he never used it for anything. The person he bought it from either started converting it and stopped, or got it rigged enough to operate and made chips. It originally came from Bell Helicoper.

The second issue is the table feed dial is stuck. Possibly related to this, one of the round covers on the left side of the knee appears to be in slightly cockeyed and one of the four cap screws that holds it in is sheared. The table feed was working in the speed it's stuck in before I disconnected the machine.

I'm not sure whether the dividing head feed mechanism on the right side of the table is a K&T accessory or not, I'm guessing not with the cog belt.

Anyway, whatever information I can get, I'll take. I'm in it for less than I could sell the tooling for, so I'll consider it a win even if it winds up stuck with one feedrate.

EDIT
I talked to Hugh Head in WI today, he's going to put together a service manual for the machine. He recommended DTE 26 in the knee/column, which is convenient as that's what I'm running in the little roundhead LeBlond. I put just shy of 4 gallons in the empty column and we're not on the sight glass yet. I am getting reasonable flow in the flow glass with the spindle on.
I took apart the table speed selector to rule out a broken gear tooth causing the stuck lever, they're all fine. I was able to get the lever to move with some light persuasion and it's now shifting, but it's still stiff. I assume gummed up lube or condensation rust (or both) in the knee is to blame.

I found another issue, though... I am not entirely sure how the ram is supposed to operate, but the only thing that looks like it could operate it is a knob on the column up by the ram ways. It does not look factory to me, it looks like something off an import drill press. Obviously, there are 2 big locking bolts, I know the rear one is free, I think the front one is too, but it doesn't move nearly as much as the rear. Was there a non-powered ram option? There's a rack in the center of the ram dovetail, but I don't know if there is supposed to be a hydraulic motor that turns a spur gear, or if the knob on the side of the column drives the rack. Also, what lubricates the ram ways? is that fed from the ram gearbox oil? I'm looking for a place to get some penetrating solvent or oil in that massive way surface besides at the edge. I have a feeling it's just really, really, stuck.

quick clip inside the starboard gearcase vent cover: Inside the K&T 320tf gearcase - YouTube

Some pictures of the ram. The two big lock bolts seem to be free. I'm considering removing the dovetail support from the rear of the column to reduce the contact area. I'm still leaning towards it being gummed up grease. I pulled quite a bit off the ram dovetail fore and aft of where it's parked on the column.





This is the cover on the left side of the knee with the broken cap screw. I tried, briefly, to remove it, but I don't know if it's just an access cover or if it's a thrust plate, etc. Unless someone knows exactly what it's for, I'll wait until I get a diagram for the knee.
EDIT: Now that I know what I'm looking for, you can clearly see the broken knee lock lever in this picture above the cover

My all time dream mill. Perhaps a little more drool than a Huron. You lucky bugger!

L7

For years and years the serials were on left face of column right under Kearney Trecker Milwaukee stamped into machined cast iron.

Format for all those years was all digits in either X-XXXX or XX-XXXX format - the first group denoting its position in a lot and the second denoting lot number

A quick look here showed only lube info for TF

Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

I had problems with the round overarms on my K&T being stuck solid. I had to use a full size railroad tie suspended from a couple of chains as a battering ram to get the arms to move. After they were freed up, they could be pushed by hand without the rack. You are trying to move a much heavier weight than I was, so you may need an even larger or more unconventional hammer.

Here is a picture of the ram controls, I don't have a scanner but I do have the factory operators manual for the TF series machines.

Steve

That's a very nice machine. It'll probably out last most of us.

Regards Tyrone.

Thanks for the picture Steve,
I ordered a manual (service and operators) from Hugh Head in WI, but I appreciate the control layout. Apparently, my knee lock lever is snapped off, now that I know what to look for.
Hugh has been incredibly helpful in diagnosing the small issues with this machine. I'm not sure if it was his current company, or if it was someplace he worked previous, but either way, they bought out K&Ts refurbishment division turn-key when they went under. Fair to say, though, that he has a good understanding (putting it mildly) about what to pull apart how and don't touch that bolt there.

Steve in SoCal said:

Here is a picture of the ram controls, I don't have a scanner but I do have the factory operators manual for the TF series machines.

Steve

Click to expand...

I got the ram unstuck today, it is a manual rack and pinion, and a fairly small pinion at that based on how far the ram moves per rev. Combine that with about 38" of dovetail makes for one stuck ram. I used an 18" drift and a long portapower extension for a cheater to break it loose. I was originally worried about stripping the pinion or twisting the shaft, but I figured the 5/16" cap screw pinning the knob on would probably shear first. It worked and I didn't break anything so... I'll take it. It still needs about 2' of cheater pipe to move easily, hopefully that will ease up as the last bit of old coagulated lube gets worked out of the center. I will probably remove the remains of the factory 2-handle knob in favor of a 1-1/4" hex to match the hold down bolts. I don't expect that ram to ever be comfortable to move with only a pair of 8" handles, I'll just leave the 18" breakover with a 1-1/4 on it at the mill.

The ram and head probably weighs in the 2000-2500lb range based on the listed weight difference.

The knee motor outer bearing is going, Hugh said its a common problem, bog standard sealed bearing. Once I get the electrical conversion issues finally sorted, I'll pull it off and replace it. It's at the just annoying stage right now.

I got all the way surfaces cleaned up, mostly with a red scotchbrite on a DA between the bearing surfaces and a gray on the knee way bearing surface.

I also found another problem... With the knee all the way up, there's approx 8" from the cat50 flange to the table, so I'll either have to block stuff off the table a bunch or use a tall vise. The 6" facemill winds up almost exactly 4.5" off the table with the knee full up

I took a .010 pass off the top of the crappy sine vise, the jaws never closed square and it was the first thing I could find that was about 5" tall, 6" wide, and could be bolted to the table. It's officially made chips! (albeit tiny ones) First chips! - YouTube

So that knee lock lever is splined and set-screwed, and of course the splines under the set screw are deformed and it doesn't want to move... I didn't have a lot of time today to mess with it, but I'll get it off at some point. Due to the splines, I guess I'll need to re-use the rod end. I don't have anything to cut internal splines with.

I had a question on angle plates, as this machine didn't come with any workholding options. How big of a deal is the damping quality of cast iron on the effectiveness of an angle plate. I have a fair bit of 1" mild plate and, gee, an enormous mill that I can use to true it post welding, so fabricating an angle plate or two seems like a no brainer, but I was watching ABom's video where he's slitting that clevis end and it's ringing pretty good once he is engaged on both sides of the rod hole and that got me to wondering if I just need to keep an eye out for a good heavy cast angle plate and fab up a temporary solution instead of going all out on the welded plate.

A friend with a CNC shop is looking through his electrical surplus, he was pretty sure he had a pair of contactors sitting around for the main spindle, then all I'll need is to change out the heaters on the NEMA 1 contactors for the knee and ram motors.

I just noticed that the forum pictures are super tiny, so here's full res. It may help someone someday: Update your browser to use Google Drive - Google Drive Help

I've been cleaning out the coolant reservoir in the foot... boy howdy... It's exactly what you'd expect, nasty sludge and chips packed most everywhere. I'm planning on building a filter block to go between the coolant pump and the main casting, there's no screen whatsoever between the impeller and the reservoir. I figure while I have the reservoir empty I should make some kind of large particulate filter that can be cleaned without draining.

I put a new 88506 bearing on the [knee motor, it's better but there's still some noise, possibly from the other end of the motor shaft, possibly farther in the hydraulic pump assy. I'm trying to get a list of things together to ask Hugh up in WI so I'm not calling him half a million times.


I repaired the knee lock handle by facing the broken arm off in the 4-jaw, drilling in and brazing two 1/4" pins into the cast end, and brazing a piece of 1" mild round. I got about a .002-.003" fit between the broken cast iron face and the face of the 1" bar, so it should be a decent braze joint. it was about .008" before I heated the joint and tapped the two pieces together. I'm hoping it sucked the braze up into the pins on the bar stock size, but I have no real way of checking.


The arbor support was sitting on the concrete floor, dovetail down, so it's pretty crusty. I could be wrong, but this shouldn't be a super critical surface as long as the bearing area is making decent contact. It doesn't look like it was scraped in to begin with, anyway.

Delta Iron Works said:

I have a 420TF
Try tapping on the locking clamps they might have frozen up
Mine is way bigger than yours and it moves like it’s on ball bearings with the six inch long handles
Don’t bother using dte26 in the knee. Use the cheapest hydraulic oil you can find. It’s going to leak into the coolant tank almost as fast as you fill it up. I fill it till it’s just showing on the site gauge.
I’ve never used the knee lock. Machine is plenty stout.
My quill moves up and down to get closer to the bed which I like
Looks like you have the backlash eliminator on yours. That has to be set up correctly also
Great machine. Good luck with it

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Sorry, I missed this post.

As far as I can tell, the 300 and 400 series have the same ram. Mine is a late model, and apparently they got rid of the oil cup for the ram slides. My locking mechanism is different from the exploded drawing as well, it appears to be a full length gib. I have not taken it apart, but that's what it appears to be, anyway. I'll take a picture today.
I'm hoping with use it will loosen up. Its somewhat possible the front clamp is still stuck, but I'm pretty sure it's not. The rear definitely is loose.



The backlash piston, from what Hugh said, is non-adjustable but frequently broken. Correct operation backs the backlash adjustment off while rapiding to reduce screw wear, so the hex nut should rotate under rapids. I haven't run it since I talked to Hugh about it, so I'm not certain if mine is working correctly.

I'm with you on the DTE in the knee, I came to a similar conclusion, but mostly because it needs to be flushed a few times. The knee doesn't appear to be leaking around the screws like its 'supposed' to, but admittedly, I've only run it up and down about 20 times.