K&T 3K Info

Ja_cain · Feb 21, 2017

Still trying to find the time to make it down to NC and check this machine out. Just wondering if anyone could decipher the serial number for me. 4-3269

Also, if anyone has links or can send me pdf's of any relevant documentation that would be great! Thanks!

Justin

ramsay1 · Feb 21, 2017

Ja_cain said:
Still trying to find the time to make it down to NC and check this machine out. Just wondering if anyone could decipher the serial number for me. 4-3269

Also, if anyone has links or can send me pdf's of any relevant documentation that would be great! Thanks!

Justin

HERE YOU GO: Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints - SERIAL NUMBER REFERENCE - Lot 15 - 3835 | VintageMachinery.org

Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints - Operator's Manual No. KC-11 for Models 2K and 3K Plain, Universal and Verti | VintageMachinery.org

Ja_cain · Feb 21, 2017

ramsay1 said:
HERE YOU GO: Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints - SERIAL NUMBER REFERENCE - Lot 15 - 3835 | VintageMachinery.org

Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints - Operator's Manual No. KC-11 for Models 2K and 3K Plain, Universal and Verti | VintageMachinery.org

Thank you sir! How do these k machines compare to the newer s machines? Also, if you could only have one K&T model, what would it be?

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ramsay1 · Feb 21, 2017

LOL you are welcome. I donot know about the comparison as all I own are old K&T machines but they are good as they have lasted since ww2.. Ramsay 1

Ja_cain · Mar 11, 2017

After a few setbacks, I'm going to finally head down next Friday and check this mill out. Wondering if there are any members on the forum that live in the Charlotte, NC area that would be willing to check it over with me. Would be nice to meet someone that is into this old iron. If not, I'll just do my best to try and check it over real good.

Justin

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johnoder · Mar 11, 2017

Just so you know - a 3K Plain or Universal from August 1941 will be near to or over 8000 Lbs

Ja_cain said:
After a few setbacks, I'm going to finally head down next Friday and check this mill out. Wondering if there are any members on the forum that live in the Charlotte, NC area that would be willing to check it over with me. Would be nice to meet someone that is into this old iron. If not, I'll just do my best to try and check it over real good.

Justin

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dana gear · Mar 11, 2017

I like the K series , good size tables and plenty of power.
John Oder is right these things are heavy, our 10,000 lb Caterpillar fork lift does lift it but you can sure tell its on there.
That said if at all POSSIBLE see it run under power, there are a ton of things to look at and for but here is the basics.
Oil flow through the two sight windows at the top left of the machine and middle. The lower sight window on the knee is just a oil level check, the knee should show some oil if not It may have a leak, I have seen these machines leak out in a couple of days.
Check that the machine will go into all spindle speeds as well as all feed speeds, this is important.
Check the rapid speed lever and confirm it works, operate all axes drives.
There a little noisy by nature but not pin ball machine noisy.
As for there age these are undisputedly one of the best milling machines made.
Warning, If you cannot operate the mill under power exercise extreme caution if purchasing as the repair parts of these machines can be astronomical.
Hope this helps... Mike.

Ja_cain · Mar 12, 2017

johnoder said:
Just so you know - a 3K Plain or Universal from August 1941 will be near to or over 8000 Lbs

Based on the brochure, it looks like ~8300 with the vertical head on it. I plan on removing this first with an engine hoist. I think the head is around 500 lbs.

Going to rent a jlg-1014 drop deck trailer if I decide to buy it. It is rated for 10k. It would be nice if it had some sort of provision for attaching a winch. Based on some pictures, it looks like it might have a flange for mounting a hitch reciever. I'm going to give the rental place a call and see if they can email me some pictures.

https://www.jlg.com/en/equipment/drop-deck-trailers/flatbed/1014

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Ja_cain · Mar 12, 2017

dana gear said:
I like the K series , good size tables and plenty of power.
John Oder is right these things are heavy, our 10,000 lb Caterpillar fork lift does lift it but you can sure tell its on there.
That said if at all POSSIBLE see it run under power, there are a ton of things to look at and for but here is the basics.
Oil flow through the two sight windows at the top left of the machine and middle. The lower sight window on the knee is just a oil level check, the knee should show some oil if not It may have a leak, I have seen these machines leak out in a couple of days.
Check that the machine will go into all spindle speeds as well as all feed speeds, this is important.
Check the rapid speed lever and confirm it works, operate all axes drives.
There a little noisy by nature but not pin ball machine noisy.
As for there age these are undisputedly one of the best milling machines made.
Warning, If you cannot operate the mill under power exercise extreme caution if purchasing as the repair parts of these machines can be astronomical.
Hope this helps... Mike.

Thanks for the info Mike! I sent you a pm.

Justin

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Ja_cain · Mar 18, 2017

Went and looked at the machine yesterday. Did not look it over as thoroughly as I had wanted, but I got a good feel for how to operate it and understand some of the issues it has.

The main clutch seems to not be disengaging all the way at random times thus making it hard to change spindle speeds.

K&T 3k Main clutch - YouTube

Also the rear y direction control does not work and just moves freely like a pin has sheared off decoupling it. I'm hoping this is not too hard of a fix.

Could not verify higher spindle speeds as the gentleman was running a 10 hp rpc and he said it would bog down.

Just totally forgot to check the different feeds as I got distracted with the main clutch issue.

Site glasses were all cloudy and the one at the top had black tape over it because it was missing. The ways were oiling and the rapids worked fine, so I think everything is probably ok there.

Will post up some more information and a video of us indicating the table in x direction with other directions locked. One way it was no more then .002 out and the other .005

I feel like I may make another trip down on a weekend so I can go over a few more things.

Any feedback on the clutch and y direction back control would be great!

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johnoder · Mar 18, 2017

You can drop the modern axis identifiers if only because the K has no idea at all of what the hell you are talking about.

Its easy - no one has to guess

Table travel
Saddle travel
Knee travel

Ja_cain · Mar 18, 2017

johnoder said:
You can drop the modern axis identifiers if only because the K has no idea at all of what the hell you are talking about.

Its easy - no one has to guess

Table travel
Saddle travel
Knee travel

10-4. I like oldschool. Lol! I guess that's why I'm trying to buy one of these old girls. The back lever for the saddle movement doesn't work.

The table wear looked no worse than .005 in one direction and l
around .002 in the other.

K&T 3K table wear - YouTube

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Ja_cain · Mar 18, 2017

The table had about .120 backlash in the center of the table. No double nut backlash adjustment. Saddle had about .050 of backlash.

Table has a few oopsies and dings, but I felt like it would be completely serviceable after stoning out the burs.

This is the feed lever that isn't coupled to the the saddle feed lever on the front.

Some picks of the over arms, deviding head, tailstock, some tooling and the kurt vice he is willing to bundle with it.

Here is what the oil sight windows look like.

I'm hoping one of you knowledgeable and generous fellas will have some insight on the clutch issue and how hard it would be to fix the rear saddle feed lever. Thanks in advance for any help!

Justin

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gbent · Mar 18, 2017

Ja_cain said:
10-4. I like oldschool. Lol! I guess that's why I'm trying to buy one of these old girls. The back lever for the saddle movement doesn't work.

The table wear looked no worse than .005 in one direction and l
around .002 in the other.

K&T 3K table wear - YouTube

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Its good you dropped the X Y Z. On a horizontal such as this, the saddle is Z and the knee is Y.

Ja_cain · Mar 18, 2017

gbent said:
Its good you dropped the X Y Z. On a horizontal such as this, the saddle is Z and the knee is Y.

I'm all kinds of messed up now. Lol!

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Jaxian · Mar 19, 2017

Ja_cain said:
I'm all kinds of messed up now. Lol!

All you have to do is use a CNC machine once to get your X,Y,Z's straight as the consequences of getting them confused on a stupid machine is often expensive and catastrophic.

As a quick point of reference Z is always the direction spindle is facing. X is horizontal and perpendicular and Y is 90 off X. A,B,C are rotation movements and such off each plane.

So a lathe is Z on the spindle and X on the crosslide. But to confuse that if you get live tooling it usually means the Z (spindle) can index or be controlled other than just rpm turning it into C axis, this helps with your live tooling which moves in Y to do mill turning.

Having fun yet? If you ever wonder why Bridgeport mills have been around so long just count the axes:
X...table left right
Y...saddle in out
Z...knee up down
?...spindle up down
?...Turret rotation on column 360 degrees
?...ram in out
?...head head nod 45+ forward back
?...head rotate 180+ left right

You start to add all those up and you get a machine that can get into a lot of funky spots. Makes them useful for when you get a guy who insists you cut a classic style breather tube for the intake manifold of his streetrod, right away while you are in the middle of a move and your machines are packed away. Yes this cost him more than the manifold was worth.

Luckily it turned out fine. Gave a new meaning to cramped work space. I used every axes but the turret.

Ja_cain · Mar 19, 2017

Jaxian said:
All you have to do is use a CNC machine once to get your X,Y,Z's straight as the consequences of getting them confused on a stupid machine is often expensive and catastrophic.

As a quick point of reference Z is always the direction spindle is facing. X is horizontal and perpendicular and Y is 90 off X. A,B,C are rotation movements and such off each plane.

So a lathe is Z on the spindle and X on the crosslide. But to confuse that if you get live tooling it usually means the Z (spindle) can index or be controlled other than just rpm turning it into C axis, this helps with your live tooling which moves in Y to do mill turning.

Having fun yet? If you ever wonder why Bridgeport mills have been around so long just count the axes:
X...table left right
Y...saddle in out
Z...knee up down
?...spindle up down
?...Turret rotation on column 360 degrees
?...ram in out
?...head head nod 45+ forward back
?...head rotate 180+ left right

You start to add all those up and you get a machine that can get into a lot of funky spots. Makes them useful for when you get a guy who insists you cut a classic style breather tube for the intake manifold of his streetrod, right away while you are in the middle of a move and your machines are packed away. Yes this cost him more than the manifold was worth.

View attachment 194006

Luckily it turned out fine. Gave a new meaning to cramped work space. I used every axes but the turret.

View attachment 194007

Nice work!

Being that the K&T is a horizontal I can see why movement of the saddle is the z direction. This machine is fitted with a vertical head though. I would think the axis would be the same as a true vertical mill when it's on. Definitely point taken on all of this. Will now refer to the movements using the correct anatomical parts of the machine. Thanks for schooling me.

Btw, what model Lagun is that? Does it have the hardended ways and 40 taper? When I go to get BP style mill, I'm thinking of getting one of those or an Excello.

Justin

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Jaxian · Mar 19, 2017

Ja_cain said:
Btw, what model Lagun is that? Does it have the hardended ways and 40 taper? When I go to get BP style mill, I'm thinking of getting one of those or an Excello.

Justin

Mine is just a standard 1980 FTV-1. It doesn't have the little tag saying hardened ways. I have the order form for it I got from the original owner and the cost of the hardened ways was not that much. Very unhappy he didn't get them. Then again it was his 'home' machine for when he retired so he knew it was never going to see a lot of use. I didn't see an option in that year for 40 taper on the option sheet. Has been a while since I looked at it though I must admit. I would love to have it, I was getting pull out with a 3/4" end mill on my last job.

Oldster who posts on these boards swapped his Lagun FTV over to 40 taper. Loves it. I keep looking at new ones with 40 taper and the big table and wishing. They must be stunningly expensive though.

K&T 3K Info

Cast Iron

Titanium

Cast Iron

Titanium

Cast Iron

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Cast Iron

Cast Iron

Cast Iron

Diamond

Cast Iron

Cast Iron

Diamond

Cast Iron

Stainless

Cast Iron

Stainless

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