Kearney and Trecker Vertical Head

ramsay1 · Jul 24, 2016

Hello everyone: Been tinkering with the vertical head for my 2hl universal..Took out the driven gear, removed the bearing, and took some pix..

Gear has 26 teeth, normal pitch 9.. As usual, I got the head with no drive gear or spindle plug so will be making one soon.....

Ramsay 1

johnoder · Jul 24, 2016

So this is a nice fit on OAs? May have to use that route to find center distance. When you have that we can see about helix angle and lead

I am assuming it is direct drive

ramsay1 · Jul 24, 2016

Yes direct drive doweled to over arms..Should be able to figure center distance by the other drive bracket for the universal head.. It is one to one ratio with the spindle... Drive and driven gear each 32 teeth 9 normal pitch. Ramsay 1

johnoder · Jul 24, 2016

ramsay1 said:
Yes direct drive doweled to over arms..Should be able to figure center distance by the other drive bracket for the universal head.. It is one to one ratio with the spindle... Drive and driven gear each 32 teeth 9 normal pitch. Ramsay 1

Now you lost me.

What does the 26 tooth in your post above run with?

ramsay1 · Jul 25, 2016

johnoder said:
Now you lost me. What does the 26 tooth in your post above run with?

26 tooth gear is the driven gear driven by the gear in the machine spindle.. Ramsay 1

johnoder · Jul 25, 2016

So, not direct drive (one to one), but the same center distance as the 32 and 32?

A reasonable expectation would be a 38 on the spindle driving the 26 in the attachment - adding those two gives the same 64 teeth total

ramsay1 · Jul 25, 2016

Yes should be same drive bracket for either the universal or the swivel vertical head.. I have found that both heads are one to one with the spindle of the machine.. I checked the universal on my machine and with both drive and driven gears being 32 teeth, I get one to one ration with the machine spindle.. Obviously the gearing in the swivel head must be different calling for different drive and driven gears.. Seems that I need to cut a 38 tooth gear for my swivel head unit.. Ramsay 1

Paolo_MD · Jul 25, 2016

Sorry, Ramsay, but I'm still very confused: either the ratio for this universal head is roughly 1:1.46, or the distance between the spindle axes and the axes of the driven gear is different between this head and the other one, or the DP of the gears in the two heads is significantly different, but the pitch diameter is the same (i.e. the diameter of the 32 tooth gear is roughly the same of the 26 tooth gear).

Paolo

ramsay1 · Jul 25, 2016

Paolo_MD said:
Sorry, Ramsay, but I'm still very confused: either the ratio for this universal head is roughly 1:1.46, or the distance between the spindle axes and the axes of the driven gear is different between this head and the other one, or the DP of the gears in the two heads is significantly different, but the pitch diameter is the same (i.e. the diameter of the 32 tooth gear is roughly the same of the 26 tooth gear).

Paolo

There are other gears involved after the initial drive and driven gears in the two types of heads.. Both heads are geared one to one with the machine spindle though.. Eventually through the gear train in each head the outcome is the same.. One to one with the machine spindle...Ramsay 1

johnoder · Jul 25, 2016

Probably be less confusing to limit discussion to what has to be made - the spindle gear - which is not 1:1 with its 26 tooth mate

johnoder · Jul 30, 2016

Mike - could you measure OD on your 26 tooth? Less any raised metal

I am going to suppose for a minute that it is 3.470"

ramsay1 · Jul 30, 2016

johnoder said:
Mike - could you measure OD on your 26 tooth? Less any raised metal

I am going to suppose for a minute that it is 3.470"

3.425 Is the dimension...

johnoder · Jul 30, 2016

ramsay1 said:
3.425 Is the dimension...

Thanks Here are some maybes that you can eliminate, or not, as you get further along with finding center distance

26T with 3.21348 PD and 25.9746* helix angle
38T with 4.6966 PD and same angle
3.955" center distance

I did discover 1H/2HL and 2H/2CH distance C/L spindle vertically to C/L overarms is the same - I.E., gears that work on the smaller also fit the larger. I used dims stated in '39 full line catalog as to radial and spread. The vertical dim. is 5.657"

ramsay1 · Jul 30, 2016

johnoder said:
Thanks Here are some maybes that you can eliminate, or not, as you get further along with finding center distance

26T with 3.21348 PD and 25.9746* helix angle
38T with 4.6966 PD and same angle
3.955" center distance

I did discover 1H/2HL and 2H/2CH distance C/L spindle vertically to C/L overarms is the same - I.E., gears that work on the smaller also fit the larger. I used dims stated in '39 full line catalog as to radial and spread. The vertical dim. is 5.657"

Yes and if you consult the parts book for vertical heads, you can associate certain drive brackets peculiar to certain machines...

I have made a mandrel to fit the spindle of my 2hl which will hold a gear blank for machining right in the spindle of the machine.. It will also fit the taper of the model h dividing head for cutting the teeth...I think I will cut a gear blank and put layout die on it then put the vertical head on and touch the blank to the existing gear and see where the bluing is rubbed out.. That should give you the whole depth of tooth for the driver.. Add the tooth dimension to the blank and it should be close..Cheers Ramsay 1

M. Moore · Sep 9, 2016

I have a 2H with that exact type of vertical head, is the drive gear the same?
I did get the original drive gear with the machine when I bought it and could take some measurements if needed.

ramsay1 · Sep 9, 2016

2h Gear

M. Moore said:
I have a 2H with that exact type of vertical head, is the drive gear the same?
I did get the original drive gear with the machine when I bought it and could take some measurements if needed.

Hello and thanks! No the 2h would be different from the 2hl... Thanks again! Ramsay 1

johnoder · Sep 9, 2016

Error error

To quote myself. Don't know how I did this, but its just plain wrong

I did discover 1H/2HL and 2H/2CH distance C/L spindle vertically to C/L overarms is the same - I.E., gears that work on the smaller also fit the larger. I used dims stated in '39 full line catalog as to radial and spread. The vertical dim. is 5.657"

ramsay1 · Sep 14, 2016

Hello everyone: I have cut a drive gear which fit and functions but is noisy as I am a bit off on my lead I think..

It has been like an oven in my shop lately so I have been reluctant to do too much at one time..

I determined that the shaft center distance in this head is four inches, the tooth count on the drive gear is 38 and the o.d. of the drive gear is 5.012...The normal pitch is nine..

I tried a lead of 29.000 and I do not get full contact of tooth on the drive gear... Will try another lead soon... Ramsay 1

johnoder · Sep 14, 2016

Buckingham says 27.266* for angle and 28.954" for 38T lead on the 4" centers

ramsay1 said:
Hello everyone: I have cut a drive gear which fit and functions but is noisy as I am a bit off on my lead I think..

It has been like an oven in my shop lately so I have been reluctant to do too much at one time..

I determined that the shaft center distance in this head is four inches, the tooth count on the drive gear is 38 and the o.d. of the drive gear is 5.012...The normal pitch is nine..

I tried a lead of 29.000 and I do not get full contact of tooth on the drive gear... Will try another lead soon... Ramsay 1

ramsay1 · Sep 14, 2016

I came up with helix angle of 27.277 and lead of 28.943359.. I cut a gear from aluminum and it seems the teeth are somewhat deformed..I used lead of 29.000 from the K&T lead book for low lead attachment and model H dividing head... I will cut a gear from a steel blank and see how it comes out...Ramsay 1

Kearney and Trecker Vertical Head

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