Thread: New member with new-to-me Kearney & Trecker Model K, No. 2 Plain, Hor. Milling Mach.

Originally Posted by kurcules

I moved my 205SA (5500lb+) on a very heavy duty Blue Giant pallet jack (weighs about 250 lbs), it was a breeze, rock solid. Easy two-man move. I also moved it on a HF-type pallet jack at another site, that was way more "interesting" but it worked. The HF jack was very elastic under the mill.

My neighbor loaned me a WESCO pallet jack rated @ 5500#. We both figured it probably is a little underrated, so, we'll see. There are p.jacks rated for 8000#, but they are hard to find used or for rent.

I'm more comfortable using a p.jack vs. pipes, especially since I'm not a pro. rigger!

More developments.

I found a 15 hp 3 phase motor to use in construction of my Rotary Phase Converter. The machine is still on the trailer (covered in tarps) and will remain there until I finish the pallet I'm constructing to move it into the shop. Having Rotator Cuff surgery has slowed me down a little.

I now am looking for some type of arbor/boring head or bar that I can cut holes in angle iron. I have two projects that I need to cut a series of holes for; one is making holes in two inch channel (four pieces about 18 inches long with holes spaced about two inches apart in each piece) to use in mounting leaf springs to a trailer. The other is making mounts for my deck railing using 4 inch angle. The holes will be (probably) be 5/8s inch and the railing mounts will actually be slots, not just holes.

I have a NMTB50 End Mill Tool Holder with two allen screws that hold a 1.25" diameter insert. That is the only tooling I have that can possibly be used to hold a boring tool.

I really need some guidance and help in understanding what is the most cost effective tool holder/boring cutter to use for various projects such as I have described. I do not necessarily want to lock into one size of cutter. It would be great to have my current holder be useful to hold various boring bars and end mills, but I understand that may not work.

Suggestions, sources, etc.? I've been searching the site, but really haven't found any answers yet. Please keep in mind I am a COMPLETE beginner in the field of machine work.

THANKS!

gary

Suggestions

Have a lathe? Make bushings as needed for the 1 1/4" end mill holder. The only defect with his idea is that the set screw size AND SPACING is standardized for 1 1/4" shank "Weldon" type end mills. For smaller stuff the set screws won't necessarily line up or be small enough. But you did say cost effective. The most cost effective solution is always that that requires the least amount of fooling around, unless you are just playing around.

Originally Posted by johnoder

Have a lathe? Make bushings as needed for the 1 1/4" end mill holder. The only defect with his idea is that the set screw size AND SPACING is standardized for 1 1/4" shank "Weldon" type end mills. For smaller stuff the set screws won't necessarily line up or be small enough. But you did say cost effective. The most cost effective solution is always that that requires the least amount of fooling around, unless you are just playing around.

Regretably, I do not have a lathe (yet ). But thank you for your suggestion in keeping with my question.


Since I'm guessing my end mill holder will not work without some type of modification, is there readily available tooling that I can use that is adaptable to different size cutters, can be used on my machine, and does not cost (subjective I know) an arm and a leg?

I've seen chucks listed as well as Cat50 tooling and it seems the latter can be fitted to my mill with some work (not positive) what I would need. Again, I'm just fishing for ideas and solutions.

Thanks for your help.

Gary

Collet chucks preferably with National Standard / NMTB 50 taper will do the trick if you can stand to buy the collets. Cat 50 is something else to fool around with, but when the machine was built, there was no such thing. I expect its pull stud thread is metric. Since it does not have the extension neck like the proper taper, the draw bar will have to be longer. There may be other pesky things to fiddle with involving face keys in spindle nose.

Look on ebay and get the end mill holders in the size you need. Thats where I got most of mine.


Paul

Originally Posted by Old Iron

Look on ebay and get the end mill holders in the size you need. Thats where I got most of mine.

Paul

Paul, are ALL of the NMTB50 end mill holders the same, i.e., will they fit my K&T?

Also, what are the smaller sizes that they come in? I would like to have sizes from .25 inch up to 1.0 inch.

Gary

I have seen 3/8 to at least 2". If they are NMTB 50, they were made for that spindle.

Originally Posted by johnoder

I have seen 3/8 to at least 2". If they are NMTB 50, they were made for that spindle.

Thanks John. That may be he most practical way to go.

Gary

Originally Posted by gkbikers

My neighbor loaned me a WESCO pallet jack rated @ 5500#. We both figured it probably is a little underrated, so, we'll see. There are p.jacks rated for 8000#, but they are hard to find used or for rent.

I'm more comfortable using a p.jack vs. pipes, especially since I'm not a pro. rigger!

We have picked and moved 6,640lb on a 6,000lb rated Dayton pallet jack, not something I would want to do very often though, took two people to move the spool of strand on a smooth concrete floor.

Rather than make a pallet to put the mill on. Jack it up and put a 4x4 or 6x6 under the front and back, then lag them to the mill. you can put the pipes under to roll or if the pallet jack will handle it just have the 4x4's a convenient length. It may not be "kosher" but my VN22 lives on 4x4's and I store the pallet jack under it.

Originally Posted by Reeltor

Rather than make a pallet to put the mill on. Jack it up and put a 4x4 or 6x6 under the front and back, then lag them to the mill. you can put the pipes under to roll or if the pallet jack will handle it just have the 4x4's a convenient length. It may not be "kosher" but my VN22 lives on 4x4's and I store the pallet jack under it.

Too late Reeltor. Pallet is well under way including two inch angle iron supprort frame and adjustable machine mounts. I should have done what you suggested (and I would if I had not already gotten this far on the pallet).

By the way, check your email.

Gary

UPDATE:

I finally purchased a new Global Industries 6600# capacity pallet jack. They gave me a good deal, matching another vendor's sale price.

The pallet jack basically did the trick once I got the mill off the trailer. That was accomplished with a mid-sized wrecker: Willard's of Buford, GA. The driver did a GREAT job of rigging the machine up and taking very great care in both lifting and positioning the mill on my pallet. Not only that, but he also lifted off another mill I had purchased, all for $150 which I though was very fair.

Four men and the pallet jack moved the mill into the workshop, but I cannot move it by myself, even on flat, smooth concrete.

I do have some questions of seemingly random nature.

Where do I find replacement v-belts to replace the ones current running from the motor spindle to the spindle attached to the gearset/clutch?
How do I remove the belts and replace; how do I check for proper tension?
How do I remove the horizontal arbor?
The machine came with cutters and arbor installed. I would like to take them off before trying to run the machine.
When wiring the machine up to the RPC, what will happen if the motor spins the wrong way?
My machine has the rotation arrow on the same side as the V-belts (see page one for specific year made - mid 1944).
What size "T-slot" hold down nuts and bolts are best used with this machine?
Does anyone know where I can find the specific electrical information for the GE 7.5 horsepower motor?
I haven't seen it yet, but maybe I've just overlooked it. I will be building a 15 HP RPC and will need to know amps, etc.

I know I will have many, many more questions as I begin this journey of learning about machining. Thanks to all who have already answered my questions and those who will chime in.

gkbikers

Where do I find replacement v-belts to replace the ones current running from the motor spindle to the spindle attached to the gearset/clutch?

They appear NOS on Ebay, or you pay full price at places like Mcmaster-Carr. I recently bought BX90 belts at both MM and Ebay. At MM, they were imported (or look like it) and were over $30 each. At Ebay, they were old but NEW USA and cost $9 each

All you need to do if find the numbers on the belts and buy the correct quantity. "X" has notches, which are more flexible

How do I remove the horizontal arbor?

Go around back, unscrew draw bar a turn and bop it on the end. Arbor will jump out of spindle an 1/8" of an inch at which time you support it, unscrew draw bar fully and remove arbor without gashing your hand on a cutter. (Its smarter and lighter to take cutters off first)

What size "T-slot" hold down nuts and bolts are best used with this machine?

A 2K has 11/16 tee slots. Buy hardware to fit and suit your class of work. 5/8 will be too big for studs/bolts for tee nuts. Or make you own 9/16-12 tee nuts and use studs sawed from 9/16-12 ASTM A193- B7 all thread rod. 1/2" bought sets will work but look puny on a 2K.

Originally Posted by johnoder

They appear NOS on Ebay, or you pay full price at places like Mcmaster-Carr. I recently bought BX90 belts at both MM and Ebay. At MM, they were imported (or look like it) and were over $30 each. At Ebay, they were old but NEW USA and cost $9 each.

All you need to do if find the numbers on the belts and buy the correct quantity. "X" has notches, which are more flexible

Any idea where to find the numbers if they are not on the belts themselves?

Originally Posted by johnoder

Go around back, unscrew draw bar a turn and bop it on the end. Arbor will jump out of spindle an 1/8" of an inch at which time you support it, unscrew draw bar fully and remove arbor without gashing your hand on a cutter. (Its smarter and lighter to take cutters off first)

The arbor is freewheeling when I turn the draw bar from the back. Also, at the front of the arbor, outside of the end support, there is also a sleeve or nut that needs to be removed (it appears) to take the arbor out of the support. How do I keep the arbor from turning, keeping in mind that the machine is not hooked to power at the present time.

Originally Posted by johnoder

A 2K has 11/16 tee slots. Buy hardware to fit and suit your class of work. 5/8 will be too big for studs/bolts for tee nuts. Or make you own 9/16-12 tee nuts and use studs sawed from 9/16-12 ASTM A193- B7 all thread rod. 1/2" bought sets will work but look puny on a 2K.

Thanks!

Any idea where to find the numbers if they are not on the belts themselves?

This is really very basic power transmission stuff. The numbers ARE on the belts. If they are not, you take an old belt to your power transmission distributor and tell them you need so many of this size.

The arbor is freewheeling when I turn the draw bar from the back

Crank the speed crank until the spindle is not free wheeling. If its hard to get into gear, just help it by rocking the spindle by hand. A low speed setting will hold it nice and still.

Keith at TurnWrightMachineWorks on youtube has a few good vids on his K&T. Alot of other good vids too.

K&T 2HL Part 1 - YouTube
K&T 2HL Part 2 - YouTube

I particularly enjoyed reading this thread. I am also fairly new to machining and I am going out to look at a similar machine tomorrow for the same price. Small world.

Originally Posted by johnoder

Collet chucks preferably with National Standard / NMTB 50 taper will do the trick if you can stand to buy the collets. Cat 50 is something else to fool around with, but when the machine was built, there was no such thing. I expect its pull stud thread is metric. Since it does not have the extension neck like the proper taper, the draw bar will have to be longer. There may be other pesky things to fiddle with involving face keys in spindle nose.

Cat 50 pull stud thread is 1"-8, just the same as NMTB 50. I made my drawbar long enough to work in either. I have a bushing I flip over to change the drawbar length for Cat or NMTB.

One spindle drive key will have to be removed or modified for Cat.

Originally Posted by johnoder

This is really very basic power transmission stuff. The numbers ARE on the belts. If they are not, you take an old belt to your power transmission distributor and tell them you need so many of this size.

Crank the speed crank until the spindle is not free wheeling. If its hard to get into gear, just help it by rocking the spindle by hand. A low speed setting will hold it nice and still.

Yeah, I know some or even most of my questions are very basic. Two reasons for my "checking in" with PM on these simple things. First, my machine seems to be in pretty good condition, so I don't want to make a "basic" mistake and really screw something up. For example, I was not sure if putting the machine in gear, without it running, was acceptable practice. In addition, I was not sure that K&T did not fit the machine with an arbor lock or some such thing.

Second, while I can "figure things out on my own" and hope I am correct, it is much wiser for me to seek the counsel of those more learned than I in this particular field. I want to learn, but I'd rather not enroll in the College Of Hard Knocks too early!

Regarding the belts, they look more or less like standard v-belts, but I was not sure they are not of some peculiar size or design.

As always, I want to thank you for your reply and guidance.

gkbikers