New owner, Van Norman 1R3

I'm the new owner of a very clean Van Norman 1R3- bought from Dave Fickel- that was one of his personal machines that he no longer had space for. Has a US Gov't tag and a tag from a vo-tech center in PA, so between those and its condition, it seems to have had a pretty unabused life.

Have to rearrange some things in my work area before I can power it up and use it but I am really looking forward to the power, precision, and versatility of this machine.

I'd love to eventually find one of the boring/drilling quill-functionality adapters and/or a universal head to get the additional angling capacity


or, maybe, if it could be adapted to the 1R3, one of the earlier-series universal high speed VN heads that combines the multi angle and quill capabilities.



How scarce and pricey are these sorts of VN accessory items, and are there any suggestions of where I could/should keep an eye out, beyond prowling that online auction place?

Thanks

There is a Van Norman (mostly mill) Yahoo group. Other than that, here on Practical Machinist and "that online auction place" are the most likely venues.

VN accessories don't come up very often, but they do come up. Prices are frequently pretty reasonable ($300-500), but like everything else, sometimes you get a dealer or a know-nothing who puts a $3,500 price on a rusted out hunkajunk but won't show you more than one out-of-focus cellphone photo.

I should add that there are some VN accessories that I have never seen for sale. The boring/drilling quill insert is one. On the other hand, I have laid hands on two universal subheads, neither of which came with my machine. The first one had been totally stripped of everything except the spindle and its bearings (seller had no clue) so back it went. A year or 18 months later, I got one with its guts intact.

The quickest and cheapest way to get universal head and quill capability is to just mount a Bridgeport-type head on the overarm, or even build an adapter to mount it to the cutter head. I also have a 1-R3-22... with METRIC screws. Fantastic machines.

Agreed that mounting a BP-type head on the overarm would be the quickest and straightest solution, and I am not ruling that out if the right head comes available at a right price. But I'm so impressed with what this VN is, and is capable of, that it seems a more fitting tribute would be to equip it with something of VN origin. The more I learn about applications/capabilities of that 'universal high speed head' the more I am intrigued by it.

Not even sure the universal high speed head will bolt onto a 1-R3. I think those were made for the 22L, a bigger forerunner of the 1-R3. I have never even seen one in the flesh, so no idea if the bolt pattern is the same as the 1-R3 cutterhead. Also would have to make sure it has the NMTB 40 taper driver. The 22L was only available with NMTB 50, I think.

I would keep an eye out for VN accessories but be prepared to adapt a BP head to get the capability you desire - finding a universal/high speed/moving quill VN accessory that actually bolts up to the 1R series is a pretty tall order. There are a number of VN accessories floating around but as Mike mentioned, the vast majority on the market are for other, much more common machines such as the smaller #12 or the larger #22.

I have a 1R3. This thread is timely because I have a BP J-head that I am intending to adapt to the VN cutterhead in order to provide universal capability. The addition of the BP head for drilling and boring, as well as single or compound angle milling, drilling and boring will be a great compliment to the superb milling capability of the VN.

I've finished a draft design of the adapter in Sketchup. The basic size of the adapter is 7.5" diameter by 2" thick and I intend to make it from steel. Please note I haven't yet checked for clearance issues with the VN ram!

1-R3s are incredibly rare. I think John Kasunich's site chart had production on 1-R3s as just a few hundred, total. That number is borne out by the few I have ever seen for sale.

Mike C. said:

1-R3s are incredibly rare. I think John Kasunich's site chart had production on 1-R3s as just a few hundred, total. That number is borne out by the few I have ever seen for sale.

Click to expand...

Yes, I realize that they're uncommon- I never even knew of their existence until I saw this one up for sale online (I was broswe/seaching for a VN#12 and then when I saw the characteristics of the 1R3 I realized I'd found something quite unusual that I wanted far more than a VN 12. That's part of why I'd like to get an auxiliary set up with a quill because if I am only ever down to being able to keep only a single milling machine, I want to keep the 1R3!

I do realize that the VN high speed universal heads with quill are for larger/earlier machines than the 1R3, but since the 1R3 has 3hp, I don't worry about the power of the 1R3. I realize that some degree of adaptation will be needed but it looks as if people have successfully adapted these VN auxiliary heads to completely different make machines:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...6109-van-norman-duplex-no-2-mill-dsc00003.jpg
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...eavy-iron/van-norman-duplex-no-2-mill-151358/
so I am optimistic that I'd be able to figure out some way to adapt one onto a 1R3

I have a Cincinatti Toolmaster 1B in moderately good condition (except that oil leaks from the table drive and head like it's the Exxon Valdez- new gaskets and/or seals must be in order) so I do currently have the quill and rotational capability- it's just as I said a moment ago, if I am ever faced with a situation where I am down to keeping only one milling machine, I want to keep the 1R3, so would love to have it fully equipped for all capabilities.

Thanks

"so I am optimistic that I'd be able to figure out some way to adapt one onto a 1R3"

Like I used to say about swapping various engines into various cars... anything is possible, just depends on how much work and money you want to spend. Adapting the VN universal head with the quill is twofold, not only do you have to make everything to get it to work, you have to find the head, too.


Add to that the fact that most of the VN heads have C or #2 spindles that you would have to tool up separately from your mill with very expensive, limited variety, and hard to find collets and tooling. R-8 isn't fantastic, but it's cheap and there are millions of different holders available out there for anything you need. Ideal would be to find a Lagun or similar NMTB30 spindle head and get an adapter for the NMTB 40 in the 1-R3(very common and cheap)so you can share tooling between them.

Bport or clone heads are everywhere out there and there is no drive adapter to make for them. Make your adapter for the dovetail on the overarm or for the cutter head, slap it on there and go.

I've noticed that the front of the spindle housing on my 1R3 has the three threaded holes plus hole for an alignment pin that are found on earlier-model VNs, and that are used by the universal quill head- so it looks like fit-up would be pretty much bolt-n-go
It also seems that the universal quill head has a female spline interface on the end driven by the machine, and then uses an adapter from the driving machine - a fairly basic 1"x6 spline-
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...eavy-iron/van-norman-head-drive-shaft-318361/
so that it wouldn't be exceptionally hard to create an NMTB40-to-spline drive between the machine and the sub-head.

The quest for the actual crank-quill sub-head continues...

kd1yt said:

I've noticed that the front of the spindle housing on my 1R3 has the three threaded holes plus hole for an alignment pin that are found on earlier-model VNs, and that are used by the universal quill head- so it looks like fit-up would be pretty much bolt-n-go

Click to expand...

While the general concept is the same, I do not think attachments made for previous machines will directly bolt up to the 1R3. Based on the information I can gather, the three mounting bolts are different distances apart for the 1R3 (all three bolt holes are roughly 4.5" center-to-center) vs the older #22 (the two on the flat part are roughly 4" c-c, the third 5.25" c-c from the others). The locating pin is in a completely different location as well - see the attached pictures. The picture of the slotter is for a #22, I believe, and the picture of the spindle nose is of my own 1R3. Note the third mounting hole is slightly obscured by the indicator in the photo of my spindle nose.




The locating pin is also in a different place from the old #12. I don't know about the locations of the bolt holes, but I don't know why they would have changed only the position locating pin. Here's a sub-head and a slotter for the #12:

Ben- thanks very much for that information. I have 'a lead' on a VN universal high speed head that seems to have come from one of the larger Van Norman mills that had a 4 bolt pattern (and larger diameter) on the face of the spindle housing. When I first found that head I'd sort of wished that I'd found the 3 bolt (but was still planning to get the 4 bolt, figuring I can't be too choosy given how scarce these are), but now as it turns out, the four bolt may be a better candidate to set up with an intermediary adapter flange for my 1R3 [and the HP of the 1R3 is actually more similar to the earlier mid-sized machines). I still need to make arrangements to get the head shipped to me (won't be cheap, because it is not light...); given some other bills that I need to pay that will need to wait a little while. Thanks to all for all of the good information.