Thread: Question about a horizontal attachment for a toolmaster

For those ofyou that have a Cincinnati Toolmaster, especially a 1D, with a horizontaladapter, how do you tighten and loosen the drawbar? With the attachment inplace the quill is down far enough that the drawbar lock doesn't engageanything. I had to put a chisel down next to the flat on the drawbar and jam itin order to get the adapter back off. That can't possibly right.

Oh, this is an adapter for a French built Toolmaster and it does fit the 1D.

Oliverdude,
Mine has the powered overarm. You rotate the the entire head to the rear of the machine. Like a Bridgeport with the shaping head, as if you were shaping something. This section of the machine has the double swivel angle head and a 40 taper with a draw bar about 9-10" long. It has a 3hp motor that is controlled with a pendant. To set it up you extend the overarm, slide the arbor support towards the collum on the dovetails, turn the angle head so it's 90 to the colum, insert the arbor, put the cutter on, move the arbor support on the arbor to support the arbor and cutter. It's similar to a Bridgeport when using a right angle attachment from the quill, only I've never seen a right angle attachment for a Toolmaster. I know the arbor support is a rare bird and a quill right angle attachment must be even rarer. I have a 1D with the H-V rear head.

Rick Hinsen

Rick,
I have both the arbor support and right angle attachment for mine. The right angle attachment has an NMTB 30 spindle in it. I bought the whole thing on Ebay from a man that turned out to be a member here. I was a little disappointed when I got it, because the arbor that went with it had broken out of the box. I would have very seldom used it anyway. I mainly wanted the right angle attachment. I just don't know how it's supposed to work with this style of drawbar. Speaking of never seen one for a Toolmaster, how many have you seen for any NMTB 40 spindle?

Another question is, how does the drawbar come out? I've taken the top plate and drawbar lock off of the head, but it ain't coming out. A few things on a Toolmaster I wish were as simple as a Bridgeport, but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Hi Oliverdude
Here is a photo of the draw bar sticking out of the end of the drive (top half of the head). You need to split the head to pull the draw bar down from the bottom. It is captured so that it can push as well as pull on the #40 tooling.



I don't need one but I would love to find a right angle attachment for mine. I must have missed that one on ebay. Great find!
There is a drawing of the attachment in the manual but it really isn't much help with your problem. On other right angle attachments I've seen like this you usually mount the tooling (#40 nmtb) part first and then drop the quill and mount the main casting on the #40 adapter. The Adapter is usually just keyed or splind and just slips in. It looks like the Toolmaster has a thread and collar on the #40 adapter to prevent this. I'll try and post a photo of the drawing if you need it.
Andy

Dear Oliverdude,
You're right I havn't seen any 40 taper right angle attachments.
Did you mean the arbor came out of the box and was lost?
The way Andy talks about the attachment you are missing the driver for the attachment. Like on a BP you have the 1/2" collet in the spindle, slide the right angle att on the quill, tighten the collet then place the att. where you want it and tighten it to the quill. I sure would like to see photo's of your attachment and if you can take some down in the bore. With your photo's of the bore and Andy's drawing maybe we can figure out whats missing.
Or maybe Gary E will pop in and solve this mystery?
Everyone have a nice holiday

Thanks,
Rick

Andy,
Thanks, I forgot about something being needed to push the tool out. It makes sense why it doesn't just lift out the top now. I think I probably have the same drawing. Is it the exploded view in the French Toolmaster parts manual? It was on there for quite a while and I think I made an offer that we could both live with. I've never used one very much, but I think ours at work mounts as a unit. I'll check to see if the arbor can be removed separately.

Rick,
The milling arbor came out in transit somewhere. The corner of the box was split open just wide enough for the arbor to slip out, but thankfully not enough for the rest to get out. I don't think anything is missing from the adapter. I'll get pictures and see if the arbor will come out of the housing. Idon't think it does though.

Sorry I don't have a scanner right now so this photo will have to do. The drawing shows a thread on the end of the #40 arbor with a collar that screws on. Still not sure how this would work.
Andy

I just had time to work on this for a while tonight and this is what I found. The NMTB 40 arbor has a key screwed to it to drive the right angle adapter and there is a bearing pressed onto the gear. The gear was a .004 press fit on the arbor and a nut like 484B in Andy's pic was captive between the arbor and the bearing. The arbor is now a push fit in the arbor. I can now put the arbor in the spindle, then put the adapter on the quill like Andy mentioned in post #4. I'll get pictures of this before I put everything back together.

Hi Oliverdude
Please take lot's of photos. These seem to be very very rare.
Thanks
Andy

Originally Posted by Andy St

Hi Oliverdude
Please take lot's of photos. These seem to be very very rare.
Thanks
Andy

Done! There are some descriptions below the pictures.


Toolmaster Photo's

I'm not 100% convinced that this is a true Cincinnati Toolmaster right angle attachment.

If you look closely at the Andy St photo of the Toolmaster manual, that arbor has a three tooth male spline as the driving element and the driving gear in the head has a matching female spline.

As I recall. the three tooth spline was a favorite Cincinnati thing for driving rotary tables and dividing heads.

I suspect this angle head has its roots at Excello as the head casting has indicating/alignment surfaces parallel to the 30NMTB spindle centerline.

Not to say that Cincinnati never sold an Excello head as a late model Toolmaster accessory, but I doubt that this one is an original Cincinnati Toolmaster attachment.

Mike

Sorta agree with you Mike....

But there's another posssibility and that is that the intire attachment was made by VOLSTRO in Feasterville Pa...it sure looks like Hermans work...

Now for the nity grity.....
Look at the bottom of the page and the collette that holds the tool... WHAT a pc of lightweight JUNK...
then to confirm what it's ability to do much of anything look at what drives it... No 510B KEY....
ya think that's a 3/16 pin??

Also note that every part number on that page ends in either a B or an 8.... I think B... Cincinnati would never end part numbers like that page shows if it was THEIR Design.

My recomendations??.... treat that thing with kid gloves, dont use a cutter larger than 1/2 endmill and sell it to someone that falls in love with it ASAP.... You can mount the work on an angle plate faster than hooking up this thing....

Good luck

Mister Honey,
The picture that Andy posted is of the correct 1-D style and looks to use R8 collets. Mine is for a French machine and has an NMTB 30 horizontal spindle. I will add some pictures from the French manual for you guys to have a look at. It does show the indicating bar on the side.

Gary,
Please look at the pictures I posted a link to. Mine is NOT built like the one for the 1-D. Mine is more heavily built.
The part numbers you referred to are reference numbers for in the manual. If those were part numbers, then Cincinnati didn’t design any of my 1-D.

The bushing in the arbor support measures 45mm like the manual says. If it isn't designed and/or built by Cincinnati, it's a damn good copy.

Originally Posted by Gary E

Sorta agree with you Mike....

But there's another possibility and that is that the entire attachment was made by VOLSTRO in Feasterville Pa...it sure looks like Hermans work...

Right on, Gary!

That head may have come with the French Toolmaster originally, but I don't think it was designed/built in Oakley and Wilmington!

Mike

Andy
The pictures in post 10 photo 3 shows an old style Toolmaster... old because it has the rounded style overarm and a old style spindle motor...

then a photo of the right angle gear...

then a photo of a Over arm support...

I'd bet $$ that NONE of that was made in France... it's too old

And it does not change my opinion of it's lack of huskyness... if thats a word...
and does not change my mind on what to do with it....

Have fun, knock yourself out with it... just dont get hurt.

Does the table feed still work?

Originally Posted by oliverdude

For those ofyou that have a Cincinnati Toolmaster, especially a 1D, with a horizontaladapter, how do you tighten and loosen the drawbar? With the attachment inplace the quill is down far enough that the drawbar lock doesn't engageanything. I had to put a chisel down next to the flat on the drawbar and jam itin order to get the adapter back off. That can't possibly right.

Oh, this is an adapter for a French built Toolmaster and it does fit the 1D.

You have a French TM ??

Just a couple sugestions....
Once you get that thing OFF ... hide it in a cabinet or a scrap barrel... or sell it

BUY a REAL horizontal mill....

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The way tool holders are tightened up in this spindle is as follows.......

The quill is raised to the retracted position.

The tool holder is inserted into the spindle screwed on the drawbar threads, then the keys are aligned and the drawbar lock is pushed in.

The wrench with about a 2 ft long handle is used on the machine spindle to turn the spindle and draw the toolholder into the spindle, now you give the wrench with the 2 ft handle a tug and it's home.

Now, as for that right angle adapter...

Pull the input gear and it's bearings out of the housing and insert it in the spindle as described above just as it were a end mill holder.

Now that you have the input tool/gear holder solid in the machine spindle, you mount the housing and carefully set the gears in mesh... Clamp it all up and be carefull running it....

This was such a pain in the tail that once you did it, you hardly ever did it a second time...

Gary,
You're VERY right on it being a PITA. My mill is actually a 1D with the french adapter. I guess you did have to remove the bearing and gear to put it on or take it off the quill like you said. Not any more for this one. The bearing is pressed down against a shoulder and held with a nut anyway, so I turned .005 off the arbor so that it is a push fit in the gear. It's still snug and has the 1/4" key, but is no longer a .005 press in the gear. It's a lot less of a PITA now. Yes, the housing is still delicate since it is AL and yes I do want a horizontal mill, but space and availability don't permit that right now.