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1985 Bridgeport R2E4 CNC Retrofit

C

Caseman91291

Plastic
Joined
Oct 31, 2014
Hello there.

My name is Casey and I am a 24 year old graduate of a machinist program here in Minnesota. I recently acquired a mill that came out of a high school. It is a good 'ole Bridgeport R2E4 from 1985. I kinda lucked out because this machine never saw production work. The iron is solid. It's the brains that are lacking. By today's standards it is a little behind in both the hardware and the software electrically speaking. That's not to say that in its day this bad boy couldn't pump out parts but upon testing the machine it doesn't seem to want to chooch like she once did. I am curious and speculating that an excited high school student figured they were a NASA electrical engineer and let the smoke out of her. And as it goes, once that genie is out of the bottle, boy it's tough to put it back.

So I have decided to move ahead and do a retrofit. I have been racking my brain and combing through machinist sites for what everyone else is doing and how to implement it on my project. It seems relatively straight forward. I am reluctant though to take wire cutter to her and gut it. I am not sure I know enough about electronics and programming to grab that tiger by the tail yet. That means any help of any kind is always greatly appreciated.

So, I am thinking I will avoid Linux. That seems to leave Mach3/4 or a commercial kit that would take my lifetime to pay for. Having decided on Mach4 I went hunting for parts. The mill has DC servos that are 128V, sort of odd. I want to keep the high/low gear spindle control and use the variable sheaves and 2 hp AC motor. The trick is that the original controller sent a signal to an air valve to adjust the variable speed pneumatically while a pot let the controller know the position of the sheaves. Getting this to communicate with todays set ups might prove difficult for a simpleton such as myself. The limit switches are 24 volt and should work fine. The power supply are good and can be reused. The lube pump works. So begins the checklist of parts:

DC servo drivers to power X, Y, and Z.
A braking resistor for each to make sure the servo doesn't become a generator and back feed juice.
Then there needs to be a break out board to help pull the brains together.
Smooth step to aid in servo resolution.
A PC to communicate with BOB.
And finally, Mach4 software but I am sure the list with grow when I am elbow deep in this one.

So no problem, hold my beer, I got this. Yeah I wish. My fathers cousin was visiting and he worked in the field of early CNC and automated manufacturing software. This was right up his ally. He looked in the Macgyver era control box and told me it was easy and wouldn't be hard to completely make our own program to run the current components. This intrigued me as it sounded like an opportunity to learn something new. I got all jazzed up about it and then...he flew back to California. So back to the retrofit.

I have had a lot of help from the guys over at CNC4PC. That have the drivers I would need to run these servos. Also just so happen to have everything else I need. They said they would even sell it to me, imagine that. They made up an order for me and and sent it my way. That's were the bump in the road has been. I don't have $1250 to upgrade. I just landed a machinist position here. Also been horse trading and eBay selling to get a little extra cash. But rent and student debt. I don't need to tell you though, everyone has these problems. But if you are lucky and don't happen to have these problems I started a GoFundMe page to ask people for help in the retrofit financially in return for access to the mill and my services upon completion. No pressure, no obligation. Totally up to you. No guns to heads here. You can even just drop a post here with some advice or comments on the build but moving forward I plan to update this thread with the status of the build. Oh yeah, here is the link. :)

Casey's CNC Mill Conversion by Casey Thrond - GoFundMe

So anyway I got a few photos here of this beauty to show off. You may also notice the tornado of stuff in our shop. We are a farming family and my dad is a bit of a "collector." But whenever I need a part or piece he always seems to have it so the tornado aftermath is actually alright by me and those that visit seeking the same.

20161204_191738.jpg20161227_090250.jpg20161227_090302.jpg20161227_090718.jpg20161227_090734.jpg
 
Last edited:
If you were not afraid of Linuxcnc you could do this all with 3 Mesa cards for less than $300, use the original servo drives and have a bunch of I/O left over.

Ed.
 
Caseman91291 said:
Hello there.

My name is Casey and I am a 24 year old graduate of a machinist program here in Minnesota. I recently acquired a mill that came out of a high school. It is a good 'ole Bridgeport R2E4 from 1985. I kinda lucked out because this machine never saw production work. The iron is solid. It's the brains that are lacking. By today's standards it is a little behind in both the hardware and the software electrically speaking. That's not to say that in its day this bad boy couldn't pump out parts but upon testing the machine it doesn't seem to want to chooch like she once did. I am curious and speculating that an excited high school student figured they were a NASA electrical engineer and let the smoke out of her. And as it goes, once that genie is out of the bottle, boy it's tough to put it back.

So I have decided to move ahead and do a retrofit. I have been racking my brain and combing through machinist sites for what everyone else is doing and how to implement it on my project. It seems relatively straight forward. I am reluctant though to take wire cutter to her and gut it. I am not sure I know enough about electronics and programming to grab that tiger by the tail yet. That means any help of any kind is always greatly appreciated.

So, I am thinking I will avoid Linux. That seems to leave Mach3/4 or a commercial kit that would take my lifetime to pay for. Having decided on Mach4 I went hunting for parts. The mill has DC servos that are 128V, sort of odd. I want to keep the high/low gear spindle control and use the variable sheaves and 2 hp AC motor. The trick is that the original controller sent a signal to an air valve to adjust the variable speed pneumatically while a pot let the controller know the position of the sheaves. Getting this to communicate with todays set ups might prove difficult for a simpleton such as myself. The limit switches are 24 volt and should work fine. The power supply are good and can be reused. The lube pump works. So begins the checklist of parts:

DC servo drivers to power X, Y, and Z.
A braking resistor for each to make sure the servo doesn't become a generator and back feed juice.
Then there needs to be a break out board to help pull the brains together.
Smooth step to aid in servo resolution.
A PC to communicate with BOB.
And finally, Mach4 software but I am sure the list with grow when I am elbow deep in this one.

So no problem, hold my beer, I got this. Yeah I wish. My fathers cousin was visiting and he worked in the field of early CNC and automated manufacturing software. This was right up his ally. He looked in the Macgyver era control box and told me it was easy and wouldn't be hard to completely make our own program to run the current components. This intrigued me as it sounded like an opportunity to learn something new. I got all jazzed up about it and then...he flew back to California. So back to the retrofit.

I have had a lot of help from the guys over at CNC4PC. That have the drivers I would need to run these servos. Also just so happen to have everything else I need. They said they would even sell it to me, imagine that. They made up an order for me and and sent it my way. That's were the bump in the road has been. I don't have $1250 to upgrade. I just landed a machinist position here. Also been horse trading and eBay selling to get a little extra cash. But rent and student debt. I don't need to tell you though, everyone has these problems. But if you are lucky and don't happen to have these problems I started a GoFundMe page to ask people for help in the retrofit financially in return for access to the mill and my services upon completion. No pressure, no obligation. Totally up to you. No guns to heads here. You can even just drop a post here with some advice or comments on the build but moving forward I plan to update this thread with the status of the build. Oh yeah, here is the link. :)

Casey's CNC Mill Conversion by Casey Thrond - GoFundMe

So anyway I got a few photos here of this beauty to show off. You may also notice the tornado of stuff in our shop. We are a farming family and my dad is a bit of a "collector." But whenever I need a part or piece he always seems to have it so the tornado aftermath is actually alright by me and those that visit seeking the same.

View attachment 190521View attachment 190522View attachment 190523View attachment 190524View attachment 190525
Click to expand...

I put a Centroid M400 on my V2xT Bridgeport. Best thing I ever did, No screwing around, plug and play. Put it on and make parts, job done.
 
moonlight machine said:
I put a Centroid M400 on my V2xT Bridgeport. Best thing I ever did, No screwing around, plug and play. Put it on and make parts, job done.
Click to expand...

I kind of did this too but bought the components vs the kit from the local Centroid dealer. That said I would not put that kind of money back into a knee mill again. I regretted it pretty quickly and bought an old VMC that has been running flawlessly every sense. For my work, a tool changer was a must.
 
atex57 said:
If you were not afraid of Linuxcnc you could do this all with 3 Mesa cards for less than $300, use the original servo drives and have a bunch of I/O left over.

Ed.
Click to expand...

I am intrigued. Could you explain this a little more or point me in a direction for more information?
 
I did a little more digging today and saw that CNC4PC is selling a new control unit that is supposed to be a catch all. It's the HTG5A1S MASSO CNC CONTROLLER. These guys are from Australia and this is a pretty interesting set up. It eliminated the break out board, motion controller, pc, and has a ton of inputs. It can run 5 axis and utilizes WIFI. Plus it does not use another control software. That also makes me nervous as perhaps it won't take off and then I get stuck with no product support. Still does not solve my speed control issue though. Cost wise for what I was planning to purchase it is similar. Any thought or experience with such?

aeb087f6736e24bb4f130ca52177d207_MASSO-3-1156-577-c.jpg
 
B-Mathews said:
I kind of did this too but bought the components vs the kit from the local Centroid dealer. That said I would not put that kind of money back into a knee mill again. I regretted it pretty quickly and bought an old VMC that has been running flawlessly every sense. For my work, a tool changer was a must.
Click to expand...

I agree with you although I have no regrets, It has earned many times its cost over the years. That said a tool changer would be nice to hae.
 
Caseman91291 said:
I did a little more digging today and saw that CNC4PC is selling a new control unit that is supposed to be a catch all. It's the HTG5A1S MASSO CNC CONTROLLER. These guys are from Australia and this is a pretty interesting set up. It eliminated the break out board, motion controller, pc, and has a ton of inputs. It can run 5 axis and utilizes WIFI. Plus it does not use another control software. That also makes me nervous as perhaps it won't take off and then I get stuck with no product support. Still does not solve my speed control issue though. Cost wise for what I was planning to purchase it is similar. Any thought or experience with such?

View attachment 190605
Click to expand...

Somebody brought this unit to my attention a little while ago. I took a look at it and if I recall correctly there was some relatively major short coming that ended my looking at it. To be fair I don't remember what it was. However I'd look closely before goign that route.
 
garyhlucas said:
Somebody brought this unit to my attention a little while ago. I took a look at it and if I recall correctly there was some relatively major short coming that ended my looking at it. To be fair I don't remember what it was. However I'd look closely before goign that route.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up. I know that it was a Kickstart project first and that it is still in development. Their software is still being fleshed out but it is updated regularly I guess. There is an interview with the creator on Youtube somewhere. I don't know, someone will have to try it I guess but it is a chunk of jingle for an unproven product. I guess the Saturn V rocket was once unproven too, never know until you light the fuse.
 
Not to hijack a thread, but I am going to ask anyway. My company just purchased same model but our controller works, machine looks like heaven it is so clean. cleaner than our 3 year old Haas's. Machine has been cutting plastics since bought new and it looks just that good. That being said, we got no tooling with the machine, for example we have the quick change collet holder in the spindle, but not one collet. My million dollar question still stands........ I need some of those collets, but have no idea what they are called, how to identify them, who to order from and what specific nomenclature is used to identify them. And is there a tool changer that works on these best?

Can someone assist?

Thanks

Richard
 
First thing to do a evaluation what works and what doesn't, could be a minor thing wrong with current control.

Can you power it up? Do the drives work?
If you can get the servo drives to power up, I'm assuming they are analog, find the drive analog input wires and you can jog them with a battery.
If the drives function its pretty cheap to get it running with mesa hardware.
I would advice to stay away from mach and windows if you want to run the machine reliably.

I run fanuc and mazatrol machines at work, but I like to use linuxcnc at my home machine. Young guy like you will learn to use it in no time.

Marko
 
tallcar said:
... That being said, we got no tooling with the machine, for example we have the quick change collet holder in the spindle, but not one collet. My million dollar question still stands........ I need some of those collets, but have no idea what they are called, how to identify them, who to order from and what specific nomenclature is used to identify them. And is there a tool changer that works on these best?

Can someone assist?

Thanks

Richard
Click to expand...
Can you post a photo of the spindle nose? How about some rough dimensions of the collet retention nut? Nobody can help if we can't identify what you have, and the machines could be ordered with several differnt spindles.

Dennis
 
Yuppers... click on the pic to make it bigger, my apologies, I should have stated it came with a Quick switch 30 spindle. and the machine does everything it is supposed to, it like most, is in excellent condition. Just no clue on the correct collet.
20170807_062231_resized.jpg
20170807_062246_resized.jpg
20170807_062852_001_resized.jpg

Should be what you need
 
Last edited:
I hate Mondays. Now that I have time to get back to this...

First thing, we need to define some terminology. If you are looking for the part retained by that collar, it's not a collet. It is properly called a tool holder. Collets collapse to grip the tool shank as they are drawn into the taper. Tool holders use the taper to bring their axis into line with the spindle axis, then reach a solid flange that keeps the gage line repeatable. This is what allows pre-setting tools. The part that actually grips the tool is at the other end of the tool holder. More on that later.

If what you have is the Ericson system, and it looks like it, please don't confuse it with the "quick switch" name. Ericson called it Quick Change, and the 30 taper size was known as QC 30. The other option available was Universal Kwik Switch; also 30 taper, but different, non interchangeable tool holders. The Kwik Switch holders had their drive keys as part of the holder, while with QC 30 they are in the spindle nose.

QC 30 is a modification of NMTB 30, which are meant to be pulled into the spindle with a drawbar. If your machine has a drawbar hole through the spindle, you can use these holders. The Ericson system was intended to be retained by the locking collar, and so all the dimensions of the flange were held to tolerance. Not so with NMTB 30 tool holders, the flange OD and thickness are all over the map.

Once you realize that the tool holder is an intermediate piece between the spindle and actual tool shank, that begs the question how the tool is held. Back in the day, all sorts of tool holders were available: Jacobs taper to mount drill chucks, set screw holders for Weldon shank end mills, and collet chucks for several series of ER (Extended Range) collets, also for several series of DA (Double Angle) collets. Likely more that I'm not aware of.

Now the bad news. Ericson Quick Change is functionally obsolete. Ericson was bought out by Kennametal, who in turn was bought out by the Borg... I mean MSC. About a dozen years ago I noticed these items disappearing from catalogs, and decided I had better stock up on whatever I might need in the future. At that time the MSC catalog was already gibberish, but one could still find Kennametal product lists on the web, and poking the Kennemetal stock number into the MSC search function on their web site would yield a result, with a current MSC number. I tried this again a year or two ago, and it no longer worked. Looking at the MSC "big book" the QC 30 stuff was mixed in with the NMTB 30 tool holders, with no indication if they had the qualified flange or not.

If you google QC 30, you will run into a lot of hobbyist sites that list possible sources. That just reflects that this equipment is obsolete for current day production, and is being kept alive by old production machines purchased by hobbyists. Some of the sources cited by hobbyists might be good, others, like Shars, I would look long and hard before I'd spend any money.

You might also ask this question on the Bridgeport and Hardinge form here on PM. The CNC forum is more for people running current production machines, for whom QC 30 is but a distant memory. As the Bridgeport CNCs move into the garage shops, people tend to ask about them at the same place they get info on the manual mills.

Dennis

On Edit:
Part way down this page is a pretty good discussion of NMTB 30 comparability with an Ericson QC 30 spindle:

http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html

Second edit:

I may have misspoke... I just read the number off a Kennametal 3/4" end mill holder, entered it into the MSC web site, and got a valid listing... $194 and two week wait. Problem is, finding valid Kennemetal numbers. MSC may be more helpful on the phone, I haven't had any real need to try.
3/4 Inch Hole Diameter, 1/2-13 Drawbar 84954791 - MSC
 
"QC 30 is a modification of NMTB 30, which are meant to be pulled into the spindle with a draw bar. If your machine has a draw bar hole through the spindle, you can use these holders."

That sir is the answer I was looking for. I have drawings of the Quick Switch 30 holder, but they are more like sketches. I do in fact have an open spindle which will allow the use of a draw bar. Personally I am tall enough to reach it, but it might be best to install a power draw bar.

More new toys..Bonus.

And I thank you genuinely.

Respectfully

Richard White
 
Caseman91291 said:
Hello there.

My name is Casey and I am a 24 year old graduate of a machinist program here in Minnesota. I recently acquired a mill that came out of a high school. It is a good 'ole Bridgeport R2E4 from 1985. I kinda lucked out because this machine never saw production work. The iron is solid. It's the brains that are lacking. By today's standards it is a little behind in both the hardware and the software electrically speaking. That's not to say that in its day this bad boy couldn't pump out parts but upon testing the machine it doesn't seem to want to chooch like she once did. I am curious and speculating that an excited high school student figured they were a NASA electrical engineer and let the smoke out of her. And as it goes, once that genie is out of the bottle, boy it's tough to put it back.

So I have decided to move ahead and do a retrofit. I have been racking my brain and combing through machinist sites for what everyone else is doing and how to implement it on my project. It seems relatively straight forward. I am reluctant though to take wire cutter to her and gut it. I am not sure I know enough about electronics and programming to grab that tiger by the tail yet. That means any help of any kind is always greatly appreciated.

So, I am thinking I will avoid Linux. That seems to leave Mach3/4 or a commercial kit that would take my lifetime to pay for. Having decided on Mach4 I went hunting for parts. The mill has DC servos that are 128V, sort of odd. I want to keep the high/low gear spindle control and use the variable sheaves and 2 hp AC motor. The trick is that the original controller sent a signal to an air valve to adjust the variable speed pneumatically while a pot let the controller know the position of the sheaves. Getting this to communicate with todays set ups might prove difficult for a simpleton such as myself. The limit switches are 24 volt and should work fine. The power supply are good and can be reused. The lube pump works. So begins the checklist of parts:

DC servo drivers to power X, Y, and Z.
A braking resistor for each to make sure the servo doesn't become a generator and back feed juice.
Then there needs to be a break out board to help pull the brains together.
Smooth step to aid in servo resolution.
A PC to communicate with BOB.
And finally, Mach4 software but I am sure the list with grow when I am elbow deep in this one.

So no problem, hold my beer, I got this. Yeah I wish. My fathers cousin was visiting and he worked in the field of early CNC and automated manufacturing software. This was right up his ally. He looked in the Macgyver era control box and told me it was easy and wouldn't be hard to completely make our own program to run the current components. This intrigued me as it sounded like an opportunity to learn something new. I got all jazzed up about it and then...he flew back to California. So back to the retrofit.

I have had a lot of help from the guys over at CNC4PC. That have the drivers I would need to run these servos. Also just so happen to have everything else I need. They said they would even sell it to me, imagine that. They made up an order for me and and sent it my way. That's were the bump in the road has been. I don't have $1250 to upgrade. I just landed a machinist position here. Also been horse trading and eBay selling to get a little extra cash. But rent and student debt. I don't need to tell you though, everyone has these problems. But if you are lucky and don't happen to have these problems I started a GoFundMe page to ask people for help in the retrofit financially in return for access to the mill and my services upon completion. No pressure, no obligation. Totally up to you. No guns to heads here. You can even just drop a post here with some advice or comments on the build but moving forward I plan to update this thread with the status of the build. Oh yeah, here is the link. :)

Casey's CNC Mill Conversion by Casey Thrond - GoFundMe

So anyway I got a few photos here of this beauty to show off. You may also notice the tornado of stuff in our shop. We are a farming family and my dad is a bit of a "collector." But whenever I need a part or piece he always seems to have it so the tornado aftermath is actually alright by me and those that visit seeking the same.

View attachment 190521View attachment 190522View attachment 190523View attachment 190524View attachment 190525
Click to expand...
do you have any of the original boards you'd like to sell?
 
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