1996 Mazak SQT15MS questions

ManualEd · Jun 24, 2015

Hi Everybody,

I've been hunting around for a used Mazak lathe and this is the first one to come up on my half of the country in four or five months.

The left side numbers for cutting time are since last software upgrade, while the right hand side is since installation. Live tool motor has been recently replaced.

Its supposedly in full working order. Comes with whats on the turret, a collet chuck on each spindle (no extra collets unfortunately).
I really wasn't interested in a sub machine, so how easy is it to throw a live centre in the sub and use it as a tailstock?
Does the sub have any way to lock or would the servo be constantly pushing to maintain pressure? Seems like that would be a little problematic.

Asking price is $40k USD, but the salesman told me verbatim "But you don't have to pay $40k. The management is open to ALL offers. If you only wanted to pay $30k..."

I'd love to hear anyones opinion about the older SQT machines.

cnctoolcat · Jun 24, 2015

Looks to be in nice shape.: sub-spindle way covers still intact and fitting well, no huge dents in main Z-axis way cover, paint nice on the outside, no obvious crash scars on turret tools.

Yes you can use the sub as a tailstock.

Remember, those era SQT's were slant-bed, heavy, integral spindle beasts, versus the flat-bed, belt-drive QT's.

With parts catcher, live-milling, sub spindle, and a chip conveyor, its worth 30k easy.

ToolCat

ManualEd · Jun 24, 2015

cnctoolcat said:
Looks to be in nice shape.: sub-spindle way covers still intact and fitting well, no huge dents in main Z-axis way cover, paint nice on the outside, no obvious crash scars on turret tools.

Yes you can use the sub as a tailstock.

Remember, those era SQT's were slant-bed, heavy, integral spindle beasts, versus the flat-bed, belt-drive QT's.

With parts catcher, live-milling, sub spindle, and a chip conveyor, its worth 30k easy.

ToolCat

Ahh no way, thanks! I was wondering what the rod in front of the door was... surprised the sales guy didn't mention parts catcher. Also the integral spindle... its getting better and better.

Does Mazak have any online archive for the specs on these machines? I'd love to look up a little more about it.

scadvice · Jun 24, 2015

Keep us posted ED on what you do! I have not played with this particular model of Mazak and look forward to how it plays out.

ManualEd · Jun 24, 2015

scadvice said:
Keep us posted ED on what you do! I have not played with this particular model of Mazak and look forward to how it plays out.

I certainly will. It's kind of a bummer, I was up in Edmonton two weeks ago for WMTS. Now a week later this is for sale! :angry:

Ah well, might have to make a short flight up to take a look at her.

cncFireman · Jun 25, 2015

Last shop I repaired machines for had about 6 or so Mazak Quick turns. Great machines. The most I ever had to deal with is way covers coming apart but that was due to operators using compressed air to blow chips which causes buildup under the covers.

Captdave · Jun 25, 2015

We have the same model/year but without the sub for 1.5 years without a missing a beat. Rock solid machines.The live tool motor coupler seems to be a weak link on this model but otherwise an awesome machine.

If there are no major problems then then the price is definitely right, either CAD or USD its a good price.

ManualEd · Jun 25, 2015

Captdave said:
We have the same model/year but without the sub for 1.5 years without a missing a beat. Rock solid machines.The live tool motor coupler seems to be a weak link on this model but otherwise an awesome machine.

If there are no major problems then then the price is definitely right, either CAD or USD its a good price.

Good to know, thanks. The live tooling does seem a little bit wimpy on it. Whats sort of the max size endmill you can profile the face with and cut keyways with?

Does this thing need compressed air with a dryer to run as well?

Arc-On · Jun 25, 2015

A buddy runs his all day every day without any major issues. He only issue he has is the backup battery for the memory goes dead every other month. It's just a standard D cell, but it's just a minor annoyance.

They are excellent machines. I would buy at that price.

ManualEd · Jun 26, 2015

Salesman was a little lacking on the details so a tech is going to check it out next week and get back to me. If all goes well I'll fly up the following week and take a look at it. What was the typical chuck to chuck length on these? Seems like the 20" or so standard would get awful cramped when parts stick out from both chucks and you're machine with both sides of the turret.

ManualEd · Jul 3, 2015

Just thought I'd throw out an update. The machine got a full service when it was traded in. They checked all ball screws, ways, spindle, drives, turret and spindle alignments, and live tooling motor was replaced.
Everything checks out so I'll head up on monday to take a look at it, run a demo and see where I go from there. I'll take a few dial indicators along to check for backlash and alignment myself.

This is hella exciting. Telling myself I'd buy a CNC was just a dream to keep me from going insane machining ½ parts on a 26" lathe. Never thought I'd actually be going to look at one!

ManualEd · Jul 7, 2015

Well the morning started off with a doozy.
Walked in on the machine running a few sample parts
"Hi I'm Jim, and the lathe needs new spindle bearings"- Oh boy.
Collet was gripping hot rolled stock @100psi, and it just sounded awful.
As parts were ran, and the stock got shorter, it seemed like the bearings calmed down. Turned up the PSI on the chuck, and it seemingly all went away. Maybe took a while for the lube to get there? :confused:

Turret is parallel to spindle line within .0005.

A straight rod in the boring holder was about .010 crooked over 4 ½ inches. I'll chalk that up to being a pretty loose holder. It can be corrected with screws on the opposite side of the holder.

8 ½ long test cut was tapered .005. Not too bad considering the machine was sitting on a pair of 4x4 wood blocks :rolleyes5:

Ball screws and linear guide ball grooves were smooth and quiet, but it seemed like a burr was thrown up on the outside of the grooves.

Both spindles sound quiet all the way up to 5000 rpm.
Repeateability between parts carried by no more than .0003

The first two photos is the X axis guides under the way cover, the next two are Z axis rails and ball screw, the last is the x axis screw.

Kind of a long post, but I've always liked seeing these kinds of things, so here it is. Does anything here throw up an enormous red flag?

vince par · Jul 7, 2015

What kind of work do u plan on doing with the live tooling? I ran the same machine for over 10 years. Had to rebuild the live tool holders about every year. I'm not very impressed worth the live tooling. Stalled the holders out a few times milling aluminum. Drilling and tapping wise, their not to bad. Hopefully u don't have dumb machinist. Cuz the machine isn't very rigid. It don't take much to knock the turret out.

ManualEd · Jul 7, 2015

vince par said:
What kind of work do u plan on doing with the live tooling? I ran the same machine for over 10 years. Had to rebuild the live tool holders about every year. I'm not very impressed worth the live tooling. Stalled the holders out a few times milling aluminum. Drilling and tapping wise, their not to bad. Hopefully u don't have dumb machinist. Cuz the machine isn't very rigid. It don't take much to knock the turret out.

Thats good to hear. (Well, not GOOD, but better than hearing it later)

Live tooling will most likely be for drilling/taping bolt hole circles, and profiling/c-boring with an end mill.
What size taps/drills have you driven with it?

The live tooling rebuilds- Do you mean just the holder itself needed new bearings? Or was it the turret-side of the live tooling that went bad? That doesn't sound normal.

vince par · Jul 8, 2015

ManualEd said:
Thats good to hear. (Well, not GOOD, but better than hearing it later)

Live tooling will most likely be for drilling/taping bolt hole circles, and profiling/c-boring with an end mill.
What size taps/drills have you driven with it?

The live tooling rebuilds- Do you mean just the holder itself needed new bearings? Or was it the turret-side of the live tooling that went bad? That doesn't sound normal.

Lol. Yeah good news but bad news. Typically I was tapping 10-32 or smaller. Doesn't have much problem besides "lying" to the machine to get my bolt pattern correct. Profiling counter bores wasn't too bad. A little chatter that's about it. But playing around with different type end mills could help that out. Yeah sorry I didn't explain that well. Yes. The bearings on the live tooling had to be replaced often. I'd recommend paying the extra money and getting the bearings right from Mazak if u plan on doing the rebuilds your self. It doesn't pay off going cheap. That's the main reason why they were replaced yearly when I ran the machine. The shaft that drive the live tooling in the turret did wear out and cause allot of noise when the rpm's where cranked up. But it's not much to replace it. If u have any issues, send me ur email and maybe I can help. Good luck. Otherwise the machine was awesome.

Captdave · Jul 8, 2015

My experience with using the live tools on this machine is to use them as you would a Bridgeport manual mill in terms of rigidity and feed rates. Drilling does require a lighter feed and maybe a few more pecks but in many cases it beats a second op on another machine.

Leveling the machine is a bit of a chore as there are few places to mount a level so we level it of the guide ways. If you end up with the machine I would pull off all the way covers and give it a through cleaning and replace all the lube metering fittings and plastic lube lines then check for proper delivery of lube from each one before placing it into service.

Good luck!

SMT · Jul 8, 2015

Those X rails don't look like they've been getting much way lube.

I just got rid of a 96 SQT18MY and we found some plugged way oil meter valves (and our rails looked way better than those ones)

My spindle rebuild was $10,000 at spindles plus when I shorted a leg in the motor. With labor it was $16,000 or so to pull it and reinstall it.

Agreed on live tool rigidity. The servo that indexes the turret also powers the live tools. Check the condition of the belt, you can see it from the top of the machine if you look down into the turret after you pull back the sheet metal cover.

The live mill head is about $2500 for a rebuilt one from spindles plus, along with the time to pull it and replace it. It does not come out the front of the turret like you'd hope. You can pull the center cover on the turret and get a good look at the milling head and the two prox switches that serve it. I would also command the live tools to run at a low rpm. You'll be able to watch the coupler extend to engage the drive tang on the tool holder so you can check to see it moves back and forth freely. Also check for excessive runout when the drive is engaged. If that shaft is bent, it's not good.

ManualEd · Jul 8, 2015

Great information. You guys have no idea how much I appreciate all the help on this board. Lord knows I'd be way over my head a dozen times over without you people.

I'm hearing back about the power to the building tomorrow, and will most likely head back up to take another look at the machine.

When the spindle bearings start to go, is it definitely audible?
Ramping up to 5k RPM with only a small piece of stock I didn't hear anything at all out of the spindle.

As to the X-rails, the machine has been sitting for a few months now, but I agree that they haven't seen much lube. Are the rails a huge job to replace if it comes to that?

Lastly, when I indicated one of the boring bar holders, the turret is sitting low(hi?) by .005. Is this something that can be corrected at the holder, or does the entire turret need to be shimmed?

SMT · Jul 8, 2015

ManualEd said:
Great information. You guys have no idea how much I appreciate all the help on this board. Lord knows I'd be way over my head a dozen times over without you people.

I'm hearing back about the power to the building tomorrow, and will most likely head back up to take another look at the machine.

When the spindle bearings start to go, is it definitely audible?
Ramping up to 5k RPM with only a small piece of stock I didn't hear anything at all out of the spindle.

As to the X-rails, the machine has been sitting for a few months now, but I agree that they haven't seen much lube. Are the rails a huge job to replace if it comes to that?

Lastly, when I indicated one of the boring bar holders, the turret is sitting low(hi?) by .005. Is this something that can be corrected at the holder, or does the entire turret need to be shimmed?

Rails: fairly involved, but I have not done them personally. Lots of stuff has to come off to get at them. Replace all the metering valves (they're under the sheet metal I mentioned that covers the top and sides of the turret's innards) and see how it goes. One of my rails was really scored but it still cut fine.

Spindle bearings: chuck the largest piece you can and take a face cut to center (not with the hand wheel). If you see lots of concentric rings there may be a problem with the x axis. If you see a fucked up spiral or rings that aren't round then that may indicate a bearing problem.

If the face looks nice you are probably fine. Turn the chuck by hand, slowly and feel for bad spots.

These tests may tell you all you need to know, or nothing at at all. Buyer beware of course.

The turret: pull the center cover plate, loosen the cap screws and dead blow that sucker back on center. Use a good boring bar holder, not a smashed one. I bought a nice one from gromax and it was like 600!

I'd probably start at 20k on that thing and either find out how bad they want to sell it or what they're real number is. If you get it for 20k and have to do a spindle, metering valves, live tool stuff to get it up to par you'll be at 40k in no time.

ManualEd · Jul 8, 2015

Hammer to correct the low turret? Now that I can do.
All of the rails and ball screws were smooth, so I think they're reasonably okay.

The lathe only has a 1.75 collet for chucking right now, so I'll make up stepped test piece from 1.750 to 5 or 6 inches and take a face cut. The smaller test pieces the tech ran had excellent surface finish all over.

1996 Mazak SQT15MS questions

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