3D Work on Siemens 810D?
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  1. #1
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    Default 3D Work on Siemens 810D?

    I know that Siemens doesn't have much support here on this site, but thought that I'd toss this out to see if I get lucky:


    I have a call into Siemens, but the voice there was not very knowledgeable. He was reading through a manual, but was going to hafta check with others and git back to me, likely Monday morning.

    I have a PCU50 (2002) Pentium 2, 333mhz (pendant? Memory storage unit?) and a 1P_6FC5447_0AA00_0AA1 control down in the cabinet with an 8MGB memory card.

    The CRT seems to show that the hard drive has more memory available than Carter had them little liver pills, but it seems that the "CNC" unit down below aint got squat capacity. Yet it has an 8M card in it?

    Siemens should be getting back to me with their version of what it would take to get to 1.5M ability on the CNC unit. ($?)

    Also, wondering about the ability to maybe drip feed it? The voice at Siemens wasn't sure about that either.

    Anyone here have any experience to share on the subject?








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    Ox

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    Sorry no help here Ox. But I have a couple questions? I don't understand, why wouldn't you be able to drip feed on this control? How do you transfer programs now? Any way to rig up a USB and then call a sub off that?

    Brent

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    why wouldn't you be able to drip feed on this control?
    I _ don't _ know _ why.
    Maybe I can. I haven't a clue.
    I thought that was what/why I asked?


    How do you transfer programs now?
    I don't.


    Any way to rig up a USB and then call a sub off that?
    If I knew - I wouldn't have looked like Mr. Newbie Gomer and started the thread.



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    Ox,
    I'm assuming you have a compact flash (CF) card in the control? So you can get progs in and out if you want?

    This maybe a help? https://cache.industry.siemens.com/d...3_en_en-US.pdf
    If you look at page 200 it shows the format for running an external sub prog to a specific path.

    One thing about the memory cards (CF) - they are very specific for the siemens.
    We had to use sandisk only, and I think it was 1meg only? I can't remember but I'm sure it had to be formatted in the control too.
    HTH

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    Your link is loading, I'll take a look at it. Thanks!

    I'm interested in any means - if there is something other than what I asked .. by all means, mention it - if you know how to make it work especially. LOL!

    As far as the card, that is very specific. It is a much larger/longer card than I have seen otherwise, and like I said - the one that's in it now says 8Mg, so ...


    edit:

    That mentions pulling from the USB. That must be a little newer manual than my machine. (Well yeah _ it says 2013)
    The only USB for this is for a keyboard - near as we know anyhow. I wonder if the same routing would be used for the floppy?


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    That's one with a hard drive. The CF card may or may not be your Sinumerik Operate and/or PLC data. If not sure do not remove it or attempt writing to it.

    You can interface a PC/laptop to the RS232 port to transfer your NC files. Get yourself a USB-to-RS232 cable(converter, $12) and look up for WinPCIN (the software to transfer your files).

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    I have a loose (non-mounted) Calmation serial to USB unit that may work on that, I have not tried.
    Well, I'm sure that it would work, but may hafta dink with the settings.
    Doo you know what transfer settings Siemens uses?


    I have never had need to load/unload a file from either of these. Most of their lives they have both been relatively dedicated.


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    That should get you started

    Sinumeric 81/84D controller CNC data uplaod/download using winpcin software. - Entries - Forum - Industry Support - Siemens

    Regarding #3. set the pass word to higher level

    Default passwords for protection levels 1 to 3:
    – Protection level 1: SUNRISE
    – Protection level 2: EVENING
    – Protection level 3: CUSTOMER

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I have a loose (non-mounted) Calmation serial to USB unit that may work on that
    Ensure it converts to RS232 (normally FTDI IC/chip if you can clip it open to check). Can't use a USB-to-UART nor RS434 for instance, won't work.

    GLuck

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    Quote Originally Posted by THCustoms View Post
    Ensure it converts to RS232 (normally FTDI IC/chip if you can clip it open to check). Can't use a USB-to-UART nor RS434 for instance, won't work.

    GLuck
    I have no clue what you just said, but I use it for Fanuc and Mits controls.
    I would ass_u_me that the Siemens is the same?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I have no clue what you just said, but I use it for Fanuc and Mits controls.
    I would ass_u_me that the Siemens is the same?


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    Yea should be the same, trial and error will tell. You won't break anything trying anyway

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    OK, so Siemens tells me that the memory on the 810 is not expandable.
    It is what it is.

    The only "option" if you will, is if the MTB installed the 4 or the 8mgb card in the CCU.
    I have the 8, but no clue how to utilize it. As you can see in the pics above, my "CNC" (CCU I take it) only shows .67 meg open mem.

    They did not address whether drip feeding, or pulling from the floppy is possible, nor how to doo it.

    Does anyone have any experience with any of these on this control?


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    You should be able to copy back and forth from floppy and hard drive with Windows.

    I often copy new programs to the floppy to store programs off the machine.


    820d-840d.jpg



    EDIT -- IGNORE, I just realised your programs will be too large for a floppy disk.

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    Pages from the Manual, maybe this will help?





    read-.jpgsend-data.jpgclipboard.jpg

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    Yes, I doo need to learn to load from the disk or the 232 - (and I will likely get to that today?) but I'm sure that is just a matter of learning how.

    My concern is if I can at all, and how to run large part programs. I need to see if I can maybe just run large external subs from a short main program. I've never ran an external sub on these controls. That is how I was running it on the A950 control. I just expected a newer than 2000 mill control to be able to handle a 3D file on it's own, but maybe not?

    I will need to read up on external subs.
    I don't recall ever seeing anything about them.
    Anyone know about them?


    Thanks for any help so far.


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    42 yrs ago today
    Ox

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    Default Gaining, but a ways to go

    Not had overwhelming luck with the floppy drive just yet, but that may be OK...

    I have started out looking pretty good with the (V.24?) RS232/USB interface, but the interface isn't recognizing the End Of Program. This thing doesn't end in a %.

    Here is a sample program that was loaded successfully, I just have to tell the interface that the file is done, and all is fine. Hopefully we can figger out how to set this thing.

    %_N_DECK_366_MPF
    ;$PATH=/_N_WKS_DIR/_N_P_AND_J_MFG_WPD
    N0 E_HEAD(272109511,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,70,17,0.35,3.,0 ,0,4)
    N5 M6 T6; 6 INCH FACE MILL
    N10 M3 S1500
    N15 G548 G0 X0 Y8. Z1.
    N20 G1 Z-.003 F150.
    N25 Y-5. F80.
    N30 G0 Z5.
    N35 G500 Y0 Z-5.
    M30 ;#SM


    The next pics show my options. I [think that I have] tried all 4 of the options on the USB interface with no change at all. So hopefully I can edit the CNC. I'm guessing that it would be the EOT field in the BLH corner that currently reads "00".

    Some of the fields of entry on the CNC side are simple "yes and no" answers. (I love!)
    Some of them are "Multiple Guess", which I usually can still doo OK at.
    But the X ON, X OFF, and the EOT fields are all "fill in the bloody blank" answers, and w/o a cheat sheet, I'm not dooing so well....











    EDIT:

    I have since edited the "Stop with EOT" field, again - with no change.
    I'm guessing that that field is for loading TO the CNC, not from. ??? I changed it back for now.

    I have no clue where the values of 11, and 13 came from in the Xon and Xoff fields?
    These were there when I got there, and are likely default. I doubt that the previous owner was using the 232 for anything.

    If I had the cheat sheet that told where the 11 and 13, came from, maybe I could figger out what to put in the EOT field.

    My (printed in 2000) edition manual barely touches this whole thing with only a 1/2 page total that I have found so far.
    Keeping in mind that the machine is a 2002. I don't know how relivant those 2013 manuals linked would be. ???




    Edit II:

    Now I tried it with the CNC field that shows "Punched Tape" set to "Punched Tape/ISO" and the reader set to "EOT/ASCII 4" with no change.




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    Last edited by Ox; 11-13-2017 at 07:33 PM. Reason: added some more

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Not had overwhelming luck ...
    Kinda peripheral to this but one thing to watch for is the so-called serial cable and the usb-rs232 "converter" thingy. A lot of them are crap and don't work right. You would think they would adhere to some standard, have all the wires and so on, but they don't. I prefer an actual hardware card and a full null-modem cable with all the wires - that removes one variable from your problem-solving adventure.

    They also make little diagnostic tools with led's that light up on the various signal lines so you can visually see what's going on, kinda like ethernet cable testers. They aren't very expensive. If all else fails, worth having one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    Kinda peripheral to this but one thing to watch for is the so-called serial cable and the usb-rs232 "converter" thingy. A lot of them are crap and don't work right. You would think they would adhere to some standard, have all the wires and so on, but they don't. I prefer an actual hardware card and a full null-modem cable with all the wires - that removes one variable from your problem-solving adventure.

    They also make little diagnostic tools with led's that light up on the various signal lines so you can visually see what's going on, kinda like ethernet cable testers. They aren't very expensive. If all else fails, worth having one.

    Pretty sure that I bought one of those a cpl years ago when we were working on a load issue with Big Bertha. Still not gotten back to that (need to) but I cannot lay my hands on that item. If I doo have it, it should be hangin' around or inside Bertha, and I don't see it.

    ???

    I'll blame it on my boy. He's not here to contest it, so ....



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    They are going back in fine.
    The CNC knows when it's done, but the USB drive still needs stopped, but I guess that's not the end of the werld as we know it.


    Now to see if I can figger out how to load directly to the CCU, or to drip feed it. (or both)

    I would think that having the % finish thingies working would be helpfull in this tho...



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    I did find my lighted line connector.
    It is still in an un-opened package and was in with my USB interface.

    Maybe "more memory" is not an option, but apparently drip feeding from the 232 as well as drip feeding from the hard drive are both options. The required soft keys doo not come up when needed for those.

    I have more mails into Siemens ....


    I have not seen anything regarding "External Subroutines" listed anywhere in the manual. At least not in the "Shopmill" section. I did find a reference about loading all "Shopmill" subroutines "and all other subroutines starting with "Call" " to the NC.

    I haven't seen where this "Call" subroutine is explained anywhere _ yet, but the fact that it wants to load everybody that is related all at once likely negates any value that it may have if it all needs loaded to the "NC" at once, instead of one section at a time. (like a "Max program" size, and then just call multiple subs from one main - like I was dooing on the other machine.)

    I think that the "Execute (drip) from Hard Disk" is what I would need to make this work. Need to see what Siemens says about this.


    Any of you guys that run Siemens have any other ideas?
    I'm guessing that most of you that run Siemens are running 840's with flagship memory on 5x machines and don't need none of this Tom Foolery?


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