65mm collet system, hardinge, royal, hainbuch?
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  1. #1
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    Default 65mm collet system, hardinge, royal, hainbuch?

    What do you guys recommend as the best value vs quality, easy to set up and use for a 65mm collet chuck?
    I won't need a ton of collets, just 4-5 sizes does all my needs.

    First thought was hardinge Flex-C A style, then I started looking at old threads on here and other names come up and now I don't know what to pick anymore. Hainbuch(spanntop combi pull back?) and royal(pull to a stop)?. Royal appears to have more range, .062" vs .040?
    One thing that seems neat about the hardinge is they have a 5C adapters to fit it as well, I have a full set of hardinge 5Cs collets for my small stuff already.

    There was also a few mentions of package deals on these systems but I can't find anything online now, are they just once a year promos or something?

    while here, with regards to 8" chuck soft jaws, what's the best place for good quality and price?

    thanks

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    I have the Flex C system.....love it..........I would have purchased any of the 3 manufacturers you mentioned, but at the time Hardinge gave me 5 collets and the install tool for free. Heck of a deal. I run mostly bar work through it so I opted for the pull back style. If you want to do 2nd op work, a dead length might be a better route.

    As for soft jaws................... http://monsterjaws.com/8-b-208-type-jaws/ They throw you a discount when you buy 10 or more sets. They are machined on all sides and are very nicely made.

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    I noticed the hardinge DL model, about $600USD more, worth it? I guess popular for sub spindles. It sounded like maybe the pull back type grips harder? I have some work that would be out of 2" bar likely pre-cut into 9" slugs, got about 1.5" to hold onto, rough/profile, then gets flipped and held on a 1.020" dia, but I do need to hold length within about .005" there. If the dia is consistent would a regular pull back Type A be ok or nah? how consistent is pull back?
    Usually with my 5C so long as dia is consistent length stays pretty good too.

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    Pull back holds better because as you turn tward the collet pushing the bar back it gets tighter. Dead length does the opposite. With pull back your z will shift with variation in diameter. I went with dead length Royal and like it. Haven't had a problem pushing back. Collets can get expensive buying a full set so the range of the Royal was nice.

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    One more thumb up for Hardinge!

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    I was thinking push to close vs. pull back only.................Yeah my bad.........I do have the DL version. I don't use it very often. There are no problems holding length with the stop.............

    As far as grip.......I really pour the coals to bar stock sometimes and I have yet to see any push back. Even when I bar feed and only holding onto the last 1/2" +/- of a 2.500"Ø bar, it's as solid as a rock.

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    Are these collets nominal size, so if its a 1", even if they say it +/-.040, good luck stretching it out to get a 1.020" part in there?(probably have to get a 26mm) or are they on the large side to start with? or does the clamp/unclamp on the cnc push it bigger to get the part in?

    I also saw they make serrated and smooth ID's, what do you guys use the most and is the grab quite significantly better with the serrated?

    thanks

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    When the collets are open they are "larger" than nominal size. But they are ground to size. I haven't yet gripped parts larger than nominal, but have done 2nd ops on parts under size with no problems.

    I have all smooth collets. I have yet to have any push back problems. These flex style collets have tremendous gripping.

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    I don't know about the others, but I know that Hardinge offers the simple "pull back", the "dead length" (push to close), and they also have a "pull back" that you can have an adjustable dead stop (doesn't move with the collet) in it. This may be what Dave has? I don't know the nomenclature names. If you want to doo some chucker work, the one with the internal dead stop could be very nice as your Z won't move with a change in diameter.

    On lathes - especially bar fed ones, as a rule - we run serrated in the mains and smooths in the subs. Of course there are times when serrated's are not prefered.

    One nice thing about the Hardinge units that I like (and the others may offer it too?) is that they have some S master collets available too. I don't recall the sizes available, but for the 65mm unit, I bought some that will take S22 pads I think. I wouldn't be surprised if they offer it in S20 as well.

    A) The S pads are much cheaper than the rubber mounted ones.
    B) I have oodles of S22 and S20 pads around.

    The [5] C style adaptors is new to me. That would be interesting to see.
    Seems like you would need to turn your pressure down before you locked up on one of those?

    Also - as posted above, the dead length ones lose grip as you push on them, but also - as a rule - dead length chucks suffer from chip (fines) getting into the assy and limiting the stroke length of the push sleeve - resulting in losing grip once it gits full. Not as much of a problem on main spindles, but subs - or chucker apps where chips are able to get up in the collet - it is a MUCH bigger deal! But I have had my fair share of issues on the main as well.

    The collet nut on the Greenlee's are drilled out to allow fines to be pushed out the front of the nut. The Hardinge B65 (Not the collet chuck in question here) is not drilled, but I have threatened to drill them out. Instead I just went and bought pullbacks to replace them and have much better luck, although we did have a job that we needed to put a B65 back on for. First that it has been out of the toolbox in 15 yrs!


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    Thanks for the replies. I'll check a bit more into the S type, seen the collets online but looks like few still make the chuck for it.
    Just noticed hardings master thing to adapt the 2.

    I'm leaning a bit toward the DL pusher style now that I see they have machinable collets. It would definitely make length repeat better if I had a bunch of parts to modify that need to be held in a collet.

    I'll get prices/availability on each and go from there. Lots to sort out.

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    One more name to throw out there is Microcentric.
    This is a push-to close dead length: Model CB65-ND/A6, CB-ND Collet Chucks - Dead Length Design On MicroCentric Corp.

    They also have a pull-to-close dead length version: CB-NDR/S Collet Chucks - Pull to Close Dead Length Design for Servo Bar Loaders On MicroCentric Corp.
    Which is better for barfeeders.

    Both of the 65 sizes can have an S20 or S22 master, for which collet pads can be had from Hardinge in the $90 range serrated or smooth, or you can get the E-collets for $60 or so.
    Nice thing about the flex-collets ( not just Microcentric, but all ) is that the clamping range is so large that you can re-bore soft collets multiple times for 2nd op work.

    If would think twice about getting a pullback, non dead-length setup if you ever need 2nd op work done!!!


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