Advice for getting a used Rotary Indexer (electric)

I have an Awea BM-1100 (40"x20")with Fanuc 18iMB control which I am looking to add a poor-mans 4th axis too.

I'd like to get a full 4th axis, but I have neither the time nor money to hook one up at the moment. (I don't have a 4th/A axis driver, and I don't even know if I have a 4th axis on my I/O card)

What I'm thinking of getting is a rotary indexer with its own separate controller and using that to make my part.

For the majority of things, the diameter of what I'll be machining is 3" 4140, not hardened. The particular job I'm aiming for requires a tailstock because it is 12" long.

It seems like everyone recommends bypassing the "lesser" brands and for a Nikken or Tsudakoma, but I am having a hard time finding any that come with a tailstock for a price I can afford.

What would you all recommend as far as a size I should get? Is getting a cheaper brand/unit going to bite me in the butt over 100 units (That's all I need it for at the moment)?

Also, I'm a noob.

-Mike

I have seen one that is indexed by a tool raiding down to press a lever. Is that the same as hydralic?

Do you need a full 4th? We have a bunch of separate box type or "indexer" units that work fine. They require minimal interfacing. Just a relay hooked up to an mcode with a finish signal.

If you get fancy, some indexers have an extra feature with an rs232 interface. The CNC control will output (via rs232 port-using the dprnt macro B function) the degree to index to. When interfaced like this you no longer need to program the steps directly into the box. Rather than just M42 (or something) you could have G11B90. The gcode used and "B" depends on macro program setup. It might sound slightly complicated but it's not that bad. I know my explanation isn't very detailed. You still need the mcode relay and finish signal installed.

Some folks don't interface at all. They just hit the cycle start button on the box.

I am a bit bias toward Yuasa. Haas is also very popular. I repair Yuasa indexers from time to time. My family's shop used to do a lot of repair service. Indexer repair has fallen off over the years but I still work on them from time to time. I also use them constantly in our machine shop. We probably have 8 Yuasa indexers ranging from mid 1980s to early 2000s, from triple indexer to 12 inch chuck. We are a job shop so they don't run 24-7. Just be sure to get one with a pneumatic brake and be absolutely certain to keep the air clean going into the unit. Water loves to rust up the brake units. I have an old 11" for sale right now on ebay. It's probably a little big for you and doesn't have an rs232 interface. But something like an 8" should work for your job. Just be careful not to go too big as it effects your tool reach near the chuck. Yet too small and you limit rigidity and rotation torque. Careful buying really really old used indexers. Some don't use encoder feedback and if it stalls your going to scrap a part. This type of indexer tends to just use a stepper motor rather than a servo type with feedback. Maybe some cheap new ones are even like this...

Having them rotate while cuttibg is a crap shoot. I've done it, but don't expect to take a real cut. Engraving is usually okay, but normally a good yank will stall the indexer motor. They are meant for positioning, not for cutting.

When I need a tailstock and don't have one, I tend to clamp the end of the part in a vise and just release it before indexing.

Good luck to ya. Hope my little rambling here helps you and some other folks.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice,

Doug, I like the idea of a pneumatic indexer, however, I don't know if it would be right for my shop. The reason being that after I make this run of 50parts, I wouldn't want to have to make a new plate for every odd angle that a different job required. I do however like the idea of the simplicity and rigidity that such a design would bring. How much do these normally run? I'm seeing some things on Ebay in the $1200 to 2k range, but no idea of their condition. I"m assuming that this sort of setup is advanced by simply cycling the cylinder? I'm guessing I can either do this manually or set up an m-code with a relay to to it in the program.

As for a tailstock, I guess it doesn't matter too much. It seems I can get an aftermarket tailstock for a 4th axis/rotary table for about $300, and I can always set up some spacer blocks to get the thing to the right height if need be.

I like the idea of creating a macro and being able to use that to tell the indexer what angle to go to, however, it wouldn't be necessary for now. I would eventually like a real 4th axis. In the end, it does mostly boil down to costs. I'm not the guy with the $$, so I have to pitch these ideas to the boss.

How much would an indexer with a control box cost that isn't a total piece of junk? I see prices all over the place on ebay from 3k - 10k for these setups, and I'm not sure what should be considered reasonable.

Considering that you can get a brand new haas unit for around $8k, the $10k used ones better be of high quality and in great shape! It sounds like you are dealing with low volume. If you don't need to hog tons of material, I wouldn't be scared of a haas indexer. With its stand alone control box you don't need to worry about drives. I have made tons of parts with them. Yes, there are others also.
Unless I knew how the used rotary had been used and cared for, I would have a hard time paying over half of new price.
Just my .02

I have full 4th on one machine, a Hass indexer w/box, and several Erickson 24 position air indexers. Since we set up the air indexers, we've very rarely set up the other more capable units. I had 2 Haas unit's, a 8" table and a 5C, I sold the 8" deal after it sat for 2 years w/o being used.

24 positions gives you a choice of 15,30,45,60,or 90 degree indexes, most common parts can be made with one of those choices. They are faster cheaper and are trouble free.

The older Haas stepper motor indexers change hands for around $1500, that might be a cheap way to get a feel for what you ultimately need.

Doug, I tried sending you a PM, but it looks like your inbox is full.

My boss has been all but seduced by the price of the pneumatic rotary indexer, however, I have no idea how they work. can they only index in set increments all the way around? The part we need to make needs stops at 0, 29, 90, 119, 180, 209, 270, 299. Since the increments are not the same between each stop, I'm afraid it won't work. Any advice?

Thanks!
-Mike

Normally that kind of job would need a programmable indexer. I bet you could make some custom internal parts for an Erickson indexer to make it work, but I don't think it would be cost-effective for a short run job.

Once you have it in your hands you'll see how it works. The air cylinder swings a ratchet lever to move the spindle and lock it. You set stops to determine how many notches it ratchets at one time - one notch = 24 divisions, 2 notches = 12 divisions, etc. I think you could make a master plate to the divisions you want, even to odd degrees, then just adjust to ratchet arm travel to match the spacing of the divisions you want.

If skipping positions, like a 45,90,270 sequence, just double index it.

I think odd degrees like 29° are so close to 30° that it wouldn't matter to the swing arm.

FWIW - I would not recommend setting up a 5C unit with a tailstock on any part that is very heavy at all.
I have had issues with them getting bound and stalling in the past.
Upgraded to a small rotary table instead and never missed a beat after that.

I have ran them for years w/o the M code signal.
I just place a limit switch somewhere and then go and bump it with either the table or the spindle.
Not bullet proof, but ...


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

I use a couple of mid 90's Haas and Yuasa indexers. My Yuasa takes RS232 input only. It's easy to setup, but the Haas has a keypad on it and is simpler to setup on the fly.

I use a tailstock from an old OD grinder when needed.

One of my mills came with a fixture that ran 100's of thousands of aerospace parts by pneumatic indexing using the spindle to push a button.

I use M-codes to do it.

mikethezipper said:

I have an Awea BM-1100 (40"x20")with Fanuc 18iMB control which I am looking to add a poor-mans 4th axis too.

I'd like to get a full 4th axis, but I have neither the time nor money to hook one up at the moment. (I don't have a 4th/A axis driver, and I don't even know if I have a 4th axis on my I/O card)

What I'm thinking of getting is a rotary indexer with its own separate controller and using that to make my part.

For the majority of things, the diameter of what I'll be machining is 3" 4140, not hardened. The particular job I'm aiming for requires a tailstock because it is 12" long.

It seems like everyone recommends bypassing the "lesser" brands and for a Nikken or Tsudakoma, but I am having a hard time finding any that come with a tailstock for a price I can afford.

What would you all recommend as far as a size I should get? Is getting a cheaper brand/unit going to bite me in the butt over 100 units (That's all I need it for at the moment)?

Also, I'm a noob.

-Mike

Click to expand...

Hello Mike

We are CNCROTARY.COM we specialise in the supply of rotary tables and can fit a number of optional M signal controls

With the work you are doing you only need a small device, so we can offer you anything including Tsudakoma, Nikken, Kitagawa, Ganro and many more subject to your budget

If you want to email me at [email protected] with your budget, we can tell you what we can do

All are fully refurbished with warranty

Bye for now

Dave

My Erickson model 600 indexer arrived yesterday and I've had some time to fiddle with it. Mike, It does look like it would do your indexing with just a custom master division plate which doesn't look hard to make. I'll be making a 25 slot plate for mine. These Ericksons are super cheap on ebay. I got mine for $198 with shipping. (I wonder if they lost money with the shipping? It came on a pallet thru fedex, 200 lbs..) It works fine and looks barely used. It isn't super fast, about 2sec. per index. It indexes by a small air valve switch that I'll setup to have the table jog over and bump to make an index. Here are some pics of the indexing mechanism
in position.
Mid index
Stop adjustment for # of divisions, ie 4,6,8,12, and 24.
.

BTW the same seller I got this from has a Cushman indexer for the same price..

You set the stoke limit on the feed cyl so that you only index so far I ass_u_me?

I wasn't "seeing" the stop adjustment in your pic.



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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Yup that's how it does it. Its just the cap screw shown, there are a series of threaded holes you move it to that basically limits the stoke.

Were those Erikson's furnished without a dust cover over the index plate/ratchet area? Or, were they and wound up discarded over the years? Every one of them I see pictured for sale has no cover. Looks like trouble...

I have the cover. Its just a round piece of sheet metal held in with a big spring clip. It think why many may be missing is that to use it in the vertical position you have to remove the spring clip that holds the cover in, at least that's what it looks like if the one that came with mine is original.