Air blast nozzle that can retract

Terrible Juan · Dec 10, 2015

Hi guys,

I'm helping a customer find a solution for air blast on their vertical mill. The machine currently has an air blast option and uses Line Loc connectors to spray the air. It is not my favorite setup because we really need to get the air blast close to the tool tip. If we adjust the air line too close, it won't be able to do a tool change without manually moving the nozzle away. For what we are machining, it is very necessary to get the air nozzle as close to the tip as possible.

I know that HAAS verticals come with a really cool air blast nozzle that retracts in and out when in use or not in use. Anyone ever piece together something like that to a machine that isn't a HAAS?

You can see it in action here:
https://youtu.be/3hkV9J1Mrxo?t=2m15s

moonlight machine · Dec 10, 2015

Why re invent it? Haas will be happy to sell you one.

Dave Cross · Dec 10, 2015

Does he have through spindle air?

We use through spindle air with TSC holders with fantastic results.

ARB · Dec 10, 2015

Dave Cross said:
Does he have through spindle air?

We use through spindle air with TSC holders with fantastic results.

Do you use any MQL also?

Terrible Juan · Dec 10, 2015

moonlight machine said:
Why re invent it? Haas will be happy to sell you one.

I guess I wasn't sure how the HAAS air blast nozzle worked. Does anyone know how they get it to retract when the air shuts off? Is there just a really lightweight spring inside?

Dave Cross said:
Does he have through spindle air?

I wish. Unfortunately it is just a single point air blast.

ARB · Dec 10, 2015

Yeah. The haas unit is just a spring retract air cylinder with a hollow rod. It's a real simple deal. Works pretty handy too.

Roooster · Dec 10, 2015

Go careful with the air through TSC rotary unions. If you have the Deublin type, they need to be a special type for carrying air as the ceramics are only meant to carry liquids and will burn if not used wet.

Terrible Juan · Dec 10, 2015

So I was able to find the HAAS "automatic air gun" as they call it.

Part Details | HaasParts.com

I'm just wondering if the actual nozzle/tube is something available from McMaster or another industrial supplier, or if it is HAAS' own design?

Nerdlinger · Dec 10, 2015

As nice as it is to just get the parts designed right for your machine, hook it up and go, you can see that aside from the mounting bracket the kit is just a cylinder ($40 from mcmaster) solenoid ($100 from mcmaster) and some fittings so you could probably do it yourself for a lot cheaper. We use exair.com nozzles ($34) but haven't tried anything else so I can't say, "They're the best" with any level of confidence:

EXAIR's Air Nozzles and Jets reduce noise and compressed air cost for blowoff and drying

Dave Cross · Dec 10, 2015

Roooster said:
Go careful with the air through TSC rotary unions. If you have the Deublin type, they need to be a special type for carrying air as the ceramics are only meant to carry liquids and will burn if not used wet.

That is a very important point. We bought the special Deublin coupler meant for coolant and air. We had a lot of problems with the old style Deublin coupler we were using, so we upgraded to more robust model that can take coolant and air.

ARB said:
Do you use any MQL also?

I've thought about adding a MQL system to it. I pretty much only machine stainless or worse, and some aluminum. The only time I really use the through spindle air is when I am building some steel fixtures. If I ever start machining steel on a regular basis I'd hop right on it. I'm pretty sure when we setup the through spindle air we used a different valve for the air, if not I'd need to add one so that I am not spraying MQL during a tool change.

Atomkinder · Dec 10, 2015

A thought: can you replace the Loc-Line with copper coolant line and shape it around the spindle nose so it points directly down at an angle that will work with common length tooling? I've been thinking about doing this myself as we use the Loc-Line solution right now too and it actually can get in the line of sight of the Renishaw probe if it gets bumped the wrong way. Certainly a more rigid solution and little more customizeable.

D.D.Machine · Dec 10, 2015

I have seen some pics of the Haas with the sticker still on the air cylinder ,, I`m thinking it looked like a Bimba brand ,, does anyone have one with the part # on it ?

thesidetalker · Dec 10, 2015

I use a copper line mounted right to the spindle, pointing downward like Atomkinder suggests. Works well for a variety of tool lengths. It's attached to a simple sheetmetal bracket with two cap screws and easily adjustable. (that's the next step - hook it up to p-cool

)

Atomkinder said:
A thought: can you replace the Loc-Line with copper coolant line and shape it around the spindle nose so it points directly down at an angle that will work with common length tooling? I've been thinking about doing this myself as we use the Loc-Line solution right now too and it actually can get in the line of sight of the Renishaw probe if it gets bumped the wrong way. Certainly a more rigid solution and little more customizeable.

I suggest you run the line through the machine. It was easier than I thought and so sweet now. Did it in about 1.5-2 hours on the weekend. This is the one on our VF5SS.

Atomkinder · Dec 10, 2015

Couldn't remember whose video it was in... but now I do! :cheers:

Here's our sad (but functional) little setup on the VF-6SS (that needs a cleaning pretty bad):

-uwkJDGkl4gofEUdNzF6cRaqvp6mHNZI5l1ZLKtTk70v4b9D2HeljdX4yiWUZAB5CEwSX8IO8fRkCUkAZceu2wuvlybRuK5rjS6lJOVhYxI_D8pytPj5-kyuCk_lV1N3KJWtvIMDztYawkfW2N8rUG1oQyAHV7BPElDz1pm_P1ij3QMqsJrJLacDFxIEd4kYF3wdtsr-PruIbFtts1q8kFrjnWWEJqJ3PenJlTiLGpmF2Atw5ZknR2T3M-zT8t3gJRk9MGbZSO6xwy4wzKIqbHt_YukS4kQRV48GrRTORQ7LtDUqJoH2OXg57nsjCb1EDp4RZy_-L64aVeSglSmSpTOaKu4oI1ycxZHaUyvUZQteg7Cmhmzv3k30U9BPzptuj6kG8cU9c_qm2SSph4USLKgJzWu5XkNmT3SXDGh2yIiFuxoiTrzmBP9uqaPZ7axk2K_VsmsZo720BB0_pganf94XtuD0P8ktYub__MD2E0SKGn_msr-G2KOShDQTdn1ntaGcndDg9h876lVQjQU22i_4M57fA1XdEnCrQ5FcrsF-Ack1zvWM2dqq8ojpq_--KJEt=w1698-h955-no

Edit: I really wish we had the coolant ring. That droopy air line, thanks to a ton of Z travel, is not droopy when the spindle gets close to the bed.

steve_p · Dec 10, 2015

thesidetalker said:
I use a copper line mounted right to the spindle, pointing downward like Atomkinder suggests. Works well for a variety of tool lengths. It's attached to a simple sheetmetal bracket with two cap screws and easily adjustable. (that's the next step - hook it up to p-cool )

I suggest you run the line through the machine. It was easier than I thought and so sweet now. Did it in about 1.5-2 hours on the weekend. This is the one on our VF5SS.

View attachment 156532
View attachment 156533

Not sure if you noticed or not, but haas installs the air line used for the air gun, even if you dont purchase that option.

Take a look in the air lube cabinet for a red 1/4 inch line that is tucked in back.
Should lead up to inside the spindle head and be capped off.
Made putting air blast in real easy.

thesidetalker · Dec 10, 2015

steve_p said:
Not sure if you noticed or not, but haas installs the air line used for the air gun, even if you dont purchase that option.

Take a look in the air lube cabinet for a red 1/4 inch line that is tucked in back.
Should lead up to inside the spindle head and be capped off.
Made putting air blast in real easy.

Shit. WHY didn't you tell me before?!

I just looked, sure enough it's right there. LOL. Oh well, I guess it could've been worse. At least I ran a 3/8" line all the way to where it comes out (then to 1/4), so not all is lost. I guess?

but, damnit.

Atomkinder · Dec 10, 2015

steve_p said:
Not sure if you noticed or not, but haas installs the air line used for the air gun, even if you dont purchase that option.

Take a look in the air lube cabinet for a red 1/4 inch line that is tucked in back.
Should lead up to inside the spindle head and be capped off.
Made putting air blast in real easy.

You're shitting me...

Edit: can't see it in there. 2012 model.

steve_p · Dec 11, 2015

Atomkinder said:
You're shitting me...

Edit: can't see it in there. 2012 model.

Hmm, oh well. I wonder when they changed the process. Having the tube in place makes it super easy on their end if they have to do a field install.

On another note, did you try that tool break macro i sent you?

Steve

Mike1974 · Dec 11, 2015

steve_p said:
Hmm, oh well. I wonder when they changed the process. Having the tube in place makes it super easy on their end if they have to do a field install.

On another note, did you try that tool break macro i sent you?

Steve

Interesting! I did not look for the air line, but the M83 and M84 work on my machine. I get the little icon and message that says air blast on/off.

Terrible Juan · Dec 11, 2015

Atomkinder said:
A thought: can you replace the Loc-Line with copper coolant line and shape it around the spindle nose so it points directly down at an angle that will work with common length tooling?

I honestly would prefer to get rid of the Line Loc altogether. I notice that sometimes the force is the air blast turning on is enough to actually move the Line Loc out of position (jet propulsion?).

The copper line does help but it will probably get in the way when running long/short tooling in the same operation. I'd prefer not to adjust the copper line during production.

Nerdlinger said:
As nice as it is to just get the parts designed right for your machine, hook it up and go, you can see that aside from the mounting bracket the kit is just a cylinder ($40 from mcmaster) solenoid ($100 from mcmaster) and some fittings so you could probably do it yourself for a lot cheaper.

Of course, I would prefer piecing something together. Can you link me to this $40 cylinder that you're talking about on McMaster?

Air blast nozzle that can retract

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