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    Default Any Fadal experts on the forum?

    I was just offered 2 Fadal 3016 VMCs 1st one is pretty loose, needs ball screws and a main board 2500.00 The other one is in good shape, good screws, new spindle recent PM. It also has a bad main board 4500.00. Both are clean, good way covers, look nice. What is the story with the main board? is this a trouble spot? What does it cost to replace it? I don't know how old they are for sure, 20 years or so? How about parts? Are these things conversational or do you need a cam system? What are you using on your Fadal? Drip feed or do they have enough memory to take a whole program? Floppy I suppose, can you hook up an emulator and use a thumb drive? I am sure I will have a thousand other questions, I have time to make a decision so I have time to do some research, I am sure I will have more questions, this is a big step for me going from 2 cnc knee mills to a VMC. Coolant and chips inside and not on the floor, it will be awesome if it all works out.

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    I'd want to know if they have 88 or 88HS controls. I'd want to know if they are 3016s or 3016Ls (linear guides).

    Sounds like an interesting opportunity. If you pass on these machines, I'd be interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    I was just offered 2 Fadal 3016 VMCs 1st one is pretty loose, needs ball screws and a main board 2500.00 The other one is in good shape, good screws, new spindle recent PM. It also has a bad main board 4500.00. Both are clean, good way covers, look nice. What is the story with the main board? is this a trouble spot? What does it cost to replace it? I don't know how old they are for sure, 20 years or so? How about parts? Are these things conversational or do you need a cam system? What are you using on your Fadal? Drip feed or do they have enough memory to take a whole program? Floppy I suppose, can you hook up an emulator and use a thumb drive? I am sure I will have a thousand other questions, I have time to make a decision so I have time to do some research, I am sure I will have more questions, this is a big step for me going from 2 cnc knee mills to a VMC. Coolant and chips inside and not on the floor, it will be awesome if it all works out.
    Here is some good info Bobw wrote back in 2012 about the Fadals. Looks like 93 and forward had the 88s control.
    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...3&pp=20&page=1

    "A lot of people think Fadal's are floppy, un-accurate pieces of shit. And a lot of them are, and its because they are beat on and
    not maintained. That's when people sell them, and thats when I like to buy them.

    The nice thing about a Fadal, a few hundred dollars and some care and some time with an indicator dialing it all in, and you have a
    reliable deadly accurate machine. The most common issues... ballscrew thrust bearings, 44: Page not found. Those have gone up in price.
    Tool retention issues, which is your bellevilles and drawbar floater. 44: Page not found

    Any machine over '93 is what I would want, those should all have the 88HS on them, up until 2000 something. I'd like it to have rigid tapping, and just
    because its turned on in the parameters does not mean that it actually has it. I'd really like for it not to have the old Mits spindle drive (that
    means it definitely does not have rigid tap). Standard spindle should be a 10k 2 speed, 15hp continuous.

    Somewhere around 95 96 they switched from DC drives to AC, I don't think it really matters much. You have a few more
    problems with the DC motors, but the DC drives (at least in my experience) hold up a lot better than the AC drives, and they
    are about 1/2 the price of the AC drives if something goes wrong. Its easy to tell the difference, the AC drives have a nice fancy
    metal cover, the DC drives don't.

    Standard Fadal disclaimers apply. Tool changes will put you to sleep, rapids are nothing to write home about, it won't interpolate a
    perfectly round hole at 200ipm. Its not a Mori, its not a Mazak. Its a decent simple commodity machine, that's cheap and easy to fix,
    and it can make you a buttload of money.
    10-14-2012, 02:35 PM"

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    What, only 3 opinions?

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    We have a fadal 8030 with a 88 control (I think). I think it's a late 80's early 90's machine. It's been a pretty good machine. I don't think it is conversational, if it is we don't use it atleast. we use mastercam. We are in md and use a place called pinnacle cnc, never had a problem getting parts, not crazy expensive either. We put a usb port in the machine so we could use them. We do drip feed on larger programs though. I wanna say we had the main board replaced or added more memory a few years back but I can't remember as we've had a lot done to it...New pulley for different belts. I think v belts are standard and the new one uses a single belt I think. The way lube system got clogged up which marred up the rear x axis way pretty good and didn't work on z axis either but had no damage done....we don't care though we still run it. I would get someone to flush the way lube lines though, it's fairly simple and good insurance. Also had to replace the screen to a new lcd since the old tube one went up. And as the above poster said rapids are nothing impressive and the tool change is pretty slow. Ours is old and been run pretty hard and won't interpolate a round hole as the backlash compensation is maxed out in the controller I think but it is still good for drilling holes which is what we use it a lot for. We do a lot of retrofits for bridges. Not very rigid for heavy milling. We got a good deal on the machine years ago and it's definitely made us a lot of money. All in all I would say it's been a decent machine for us.

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    There was a Fadal control with some antiquated version of Gibs running on the control computer. I can't remember what they called that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    There was a Fadal control with some antiquated version of Gibs running on the control computer. I can't remember what they called that.
    I think that was the MP32, essentially an 88HS with a computer next to it.

    Ours is old and been run pretty hard and won't interpolate a round hole as the backlash compensation is maxed out in the controller I think but it is still good for drilling holes which is what we use it a lot for. We do a lot of retrofits for bridges. Not very rigid for heavy milling.
    Not accurate and can't take a cut... Thrust bearings and bellevilles/floater.. A few hundred bucks and half a day
    and it would once again be accurate and take a cut.

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    my opinion coming from a Tree J325 is: Much better and cheap and easy to fix. Very happy with my VMC15 (which is an 88hs linear machine but with only 24" in x).

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    What, only 3 opinions?
    The 3 opinions that you got were pretty damn good if you ask me.
    At least you could address those before bitching that you didn't get a 50 page thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    What, only 3 opinions?
    Friend bought a Fadal in the late eighties, new. Made him enough money so that he figured he needed an Ikegai. Then he almost went broke paying for the Ikegai

    The Fadal was an okay machine and did nice work, especially for a job shop where you aren't running it 18 hours a day 7 days a week. This was the old one, even.

    And I like dc motors better, actually. They got more grunt at low rpm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    The 3 opinions that you got were pretty damn good if you ask me.
    At least you could address those before bitching that you didn't get a 50 page thread.
    Not a lot to say.. Essentially the same machine from the 80's up into the 2000's..
    Parts are cheap and available from many sources.
    Options are all hardware only, there are no software options, the control can do it all.
    The control is simple and menu driven, with some fantastic tool and fixture setting utilites.
    Parameters are 3 simple pages written in english, even if you lose them, takes 2 minutes to re-enter them.
    15hp is a REAL 15hp continuous, 22.5 for 5 minutes or something.. 2 speed head, so a ton of F'n torque.

    The down sides..
    Its not a Mazak, Its not a Mori.
    Its not the fastest thing going.
    Toolchanges will literally put you to sleep.
    Its a simple commodity machine that does need to be maintained.

    Lot of bang for the buck, and there is a metric buttload of them still making chips
    so parts should be available for a very long time.

    I also feel they are getting towards the bottom on pricing, so its not a bad time to buy.

    Not conversational, though I believe from 95 and up there is a weak attempt at some form of
    conversational that I don't think anybody has ever used.

    As for your blown boards, ITS can probably fix 'em up for ya.. Also, I'm a firm believer in
    buying 2 machine (looks like you are leaning that way).. Its really nice being able to compare
    machine to machine and being able to swap boards from machine to machine, that can save you a
    ton of time and money if you are trouble shooting a problem... Also, less spare parts to keep
    on hand, I keep a set of bellevilles, a floater (DO NOT FORGET THE FLOATER!!), a few sets of
    thrust bearings and a spare set of belts on hand.

    They are great machines, though not the fastest, if you MAINTAIN them... You HAVE TO MAINTAIN them...
    If you maintain them, they can be damn accurate and rigid enough to use every bit of HP they have.

    Pic of one of the 3 parameter pages.. See how EASY that is.. No page after page after page
    of hexadecimal and binary bullshit, just plain simple english.


    This machine came to me with .019" of slop in the Y, and only about 12 of the 40 something
    bellevilles in tact. She was in rough shape.. Now she can interpolate a hole within a thou,
    no witness marks and I've pulled 23 cubic inches a minute in mild steel with a half inch endmill.
    This phote (I've posted it many times), just shy of 3 of these piles of annealed 4340 on a
    single half inch endmill pulling somewhere around 12 cubic inches a minute.


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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    What, only 3 opinions?
    Well, you can only get so much information given the original post. What you might do is:

    1)Go to the back of the machine(s) and list or post a photo of the builders plate - it usually shows machine model and year built (or remanufactured).

    2)Open up the back of the control pendant and look for info on such items as extended memory, control type and software version (something like 3,4, or 5). Plus any other options installed.

    We have 14 Fadals (6 are 3016) 1993 and newer; as others have mentioned, well cared for and maintained, they are very serviceable machines.

    Of course you can write programs manually; in fact, there are a number of builtin routines for pocketing, etc. that can dramatically reduce your programming time. But any decent CAM system should have a post(s) for Fadal. If memory is limited, one outfit to contact is CalMotion - they have devices that allow you use usb sticks with the RS232 input; very simple install.

    Fred

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    $2500 and $4500? Where does everybody find these deals??

    Ed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    The 3 opinions that you got were pretty damn good if you ask me.
    At least you could address those before bitching that you didn't get a 50 page thread.
    First of all, I did not ask what you thought about the other posts. Secondly I sure as hell did not bitch about not getting a 50 page thread. All the 3 opinions post was for is to bump it up so it would appear when someone would click new posts. Go lay by your dish.

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    I wouldn't say Fadal's have a problem with boards going bad. No more than any other manufacturer. You can get replacements and repairs easy and there a used ones on ebay quite frequently. You'll need to know what version your machine uses since they are not all interchangable. The loose machine may just have a bad thrust bearing. MUCH more commen for these to fail then a ballscrew. Much cheaper to repair also. I also like to buy used and fix them up. Those are good prices even for a linear machine.
    What years are they? I may have a board that works.

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    You have to maintain them says the guy with 600lbs of metal chips holding up the travel of the X axis and a can of Bud Light on the chips.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    Not a lot to say..



    They are great machines, though not the fastest, if you MAINTAIN them... You HAVE TO MAINTAIN them...
    If you maintain them, they can be damn accurate and rigid enough to use every bit of HP they have.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedie View Post
    You have to maintain them says the guy with 600lbs of metal chips holding up the travel of the X axis and a can of Bud Light on the chips.
    That was the end of day #3... No parts left to rough.. ALL the bins and barrels in the shop were full of chips
    and the cleaning guy was coming in the morning to dump 'em all and shovel the machines... I wouldn't
    normally let it go to that point.

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    Yeah I wouldn't want to let go of that can of beer and let the chips heat it up either.


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