CNC Broken. Thoughts on what path to take

jamscal · Jun 26, 2017

Hello all.

I'm a fabricator who bought a cnc mill.

KIWA excel center 4. Fanuc 3M C (yellow cap brushed servos)

Bought at auction from original owners shop.

Z axis servo went out just as we were running some simple drill programs.

I sent it off and have the service report on the servo but the main $$$ trouble is the encoder needs replaced ($5k+)

Also armature wedged in place. (basic rebuild starts at $800)

I bought for cheap and didn't use day to day.

I'd like to maybe buy another or fix this one if possible.

Any thoughts on parting out? (I'd need to recoup only $2500 to 'break even')

I'd probably put a couple thousand into repair too if I were reasonably sure of the outcome...

Old machine, I know. Tool changer doesn't work either.

Thoughts?

I can post pics and service report on servo if that helps.

Johnny Larue · Jun 27, 2017

I think there is some in here you can use

kiwa cnc | eBay

Larry Dickman · Jun 27, 2017

whoever quoted you $5k for an encoder is trying to retire early

homanfab · Jun 27, 2017

If you do decide to part it out, I may be interested in some spindle parts. I have been using my Kiwa for a couple of years and it has worked well for me. Seems to be a pretty well built mill.

What are the issues with the tool changer? I have the 10M control but you need to command the Z-axis to the tool change position in order for the tool changer to function.

aj · Jun 27, 2017

jamscal said:
Fanuc 3M C (yellow cap brushed servos)

Check with Tennessee Industrial Electronics. They carry a lot of the older stuff and they're about half the price of new.

And no, I don't work there. They've just saved us a ton of money over the years.

615-471-5070

Ask for Kris Shaw

jamscal · Jun 27, 2017

aj said:
Check with Tennessee Industrial Electronics. They carry a lot of the older stuff and they're about half the price of new.

And no, I don't work there. They've just saved us a ton of money over the years.

615-471-5070

Ask for Kris Shaw

Thanks, I called her and they were helpful and quick with the response.

They did have one in stock for exchange but $3500 plus core assuming mine is rebuildable. $4500 if not.

I paid $2500 for machine so I'm reluctant to do that right now esp considering the other issues with machine.

homanfab said:
If you do decide to part it out, I may be interested in some spindle parts. I have been using my Kiwa for a couple of years and it has worked well for me. Seems to be a pretty well built mill.

What are the issues with the tool changer? I have the 10M control but you need to command the Z-axis to the tool change position in order for the tool changer to function.

I bought at auction but the original owners were there and they told me an air solenoid was bad on the changer...but some of the wiring up there looks spliced so that might be a can of worms.

I'll keep you in mind should I part it.

The first company I sent the motor too were good and I don't think they were trying to gouge me...I'm assuming they were going to sell me a genuine Fanuc part.

They inspected, cleaned, gave report for no charge (I expected to pay for that) and said they weren't surprised that I didn't want to spend the $.

Off to look again for a used unit.

jamscal · Jun 27, 2017

Well, this might be a no-brainer...found this with free shipping and a return policy:

FANUC DC SERVO MOTOR MODEL 1M A6B-651-B12 25M A86--T2 | eBay

TIE gave me that^^^ part number and the other company had something different....so the call today was def. helpful as this part number is available all over ebay.

I'll try to plug and play and go from there.

Any thing else I should be aware of?

Shaft dia should be same with same PN, no?

Thanks all for your responses

Vancbiker · Jun 27, 2017

jamscal said:
....Any thing else I should be aware of?

Encoders in that era were available in different pulse per revolution counts. Under the yellow cap is the encoder. It should have a Fanuc label on it showing the spec. It is easiest to swap like for like. If you do end up with a different count you can sometimes correct for that with a bunch of parameter changes. Extra work best avoided.

Here is an encoder from a similar motor.

FANUC PULSE CODER ENCODER PN A86--T2 FREE SHIPPING QE | eBay

You can see on the label the count, 2500 pulse/rev.

jamscal · Jun 27, 2017

Vancbiker said:
Encoders in that era were available in different pulse per revolution counts. Under the yellow cap is the encoder. It should have a Fanuc label on it showing the spec. It is easiest to swap like for like. If you do end up with a different count you can sometimes correct for that with a bunch of parameter changes. Extra work best avoided.

Here is an encoder from a similar motor.

FANUC PULSE CODER ENCODER PN A86-3-T2 FREE SHIPPING QE | eBay

You can see on the label the count, 2500 pulse/rev.

Thanks, I'll take mine apart to look before I pull the trigger.

The one you linked to has the same encoder (per part number) as the whole motor I linked.

-James

Vancbiker · Jun 27, 2017

jamscal said:
Thanks, I'll take mine apart to look before I pull the trigger.

The one you linked to has the same encoder (per part number) as the whole motor I linked.

-James

I'd ask the seller of the motor to pull the cap and shoot a pic of the encoder. On a motor that old, of unknown history, I would not rely on the motor label as gospel about the encoder installed.

jamscal · Jun 28, 2017

My encoder ends in t001

The linked ones end in t002

Otherwise the same...

Anyone know if this is a deal killer or just ver. 2?

Wishful thinking?

Edit: wishful thinking...my lable is a bit different but also has 2000F on it which is probably the pulses.

homanfab · Jun 28, 2017

I got two sets of manuals with my machine, I think one may have been for an older machine but not 100% sure, would need to dig through them. Let me know if you need wiring diagrams and I can scan some pages for you.

jamscal · Jun 28, 2017

homanfab said:
I got two sets of manuals with my machine, I think one may have been for an older machine but not 100% sure, would need to dig through them. Let me know if you need wiring diagrams and I can scan some pages for you.

Thanks. I do have all the manuals with mine too.

Vancbiker · Jun 28, 2017

jamscal said:
My encoder ends in t001

The linked ones end in t002

Otherwise the same...

Anyone know if this is a deal killer or just ver. 2?

Wishful thinking?

Edit: wishful thinking...my lable is a bit different but also has 2000F on it which is probably the pulses.

Until the seller of that motor can give you a picture of the encoder installed, keep looking. I don't think it is uncommon on old motors to have something other than what the label says. That motor could have been on a few different machines in the past 30+ years. I learned that the hard way once.

jamscal · Aug 7, 2017

Update:

I bought an ebay motor with free shipping and return policy.

Also bought correct encoder (From Taiwan).

Went ahead and sent it to TIE (Thanks again for the recommendation)so they could wire it all together and test...they did that for $350 or so...

So I'm pretty happy with the outcome.

Back up and running now.

scadvice · Aug 7, 2017

Gotta love PM.... :smitten:

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