Hello everyone. I need to pick your brains a little bit.

My company needs to get a CNC turning center for making various parts. Up to this point we have been a small company making gun parts on manual equipment. The time has come where we really need to get a CNC machine center ASAP.

The parts that will get made on it will be flash hiders, bolts, buffers, reloading dies, bullet moulds and various other small parts that are under 1.5" OD.

All parts are made from steel, a lot of them being 4140. I need a machine that will be able to mill slots and drill holes perpendicular to the workpiece so a 3rd axis will be needed. Also a secondary spindle would be very useful.

Do you guys have any suggestions for a machine that might fit this bill. We need something that has fairly small foot print, and that will not cost a fortune.

Thanks a lot,
Greebe

What is the length to diameter ratio of your typical part? What's your budget, and is a used machine acceptable?

And will you insist upon having live tool spindles on it? You could get the Okuma that Milacron here has for sale and have a good lathe for under $10K, or you could spend over $100K and get quite a nice machine. Budget?

The longest part right now would be under 6" on under 1.5" in diameter.

The flash hiders are .875" OD x 2.25" made from 4140, lots of those will be made on it. As with all flash hiders they have ports milled into the sides. They are threaded 1/2-28 on one end for attachment to the barrel.

Dies are made from .875" stock from 2-4" in length, made from O-1, and threaded on the outside for 7/8-14

There are quite a few small parts made form .375" round stock varying in length from .75" to 4".

It would be nice to have larger capacity for other projects in the future, but for now those are the main items being made. At some point we would like to turn op rods at a length of 8" x .5" dia.

Price? Well we are looking to stay under $40,000. I understand that we may not find a machine for that little new. I know that used could be a good deal with extra features and tooling, but I am a bit nervous about buying someones problems.

I noticed that Haas has some smaller machines, but I have heard mixed results from them. They have several machines that seem like they might fit the bill, but again I really know little about the CNC machines.

I am open to used machines if they are in good condition and the brand is such that they will still last without a lot of problems.

I could use any pointers as to the brand and type of machines that might work for us.

Also I have seen some good things about the machines coming out of Taiwan. Any thoughts about those?

Thanks
Greebe

For what your wanting to make - you will either need to pony up for a Y axis machine - or buy a basic 2 axis lathe and a 4 axis mill.

A "3 axis" lathe will not make flash hiders complete.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Hmmm.. Ok so I would need a CNC Center to turn all the profiles, bore the inside, then part off and put back into the machine to drill, boar and thread the other end? Then move it over to the mill for milling the slots?

That would save more time than doing it all manually. I was hoping for a machine that would be a little more hands off.

Could the complete flash hider not be produced on a CNC Center that had a Z axis and a sub spindle?

Thanks
Greebe

How bout something like this? Seems like it would fit the bill nicely.

Sub Spindle Lathe - Chiah Chyun Machinery Co., Ltd. - HD Video of Taiwan Sub Spindle Lathe Manufacturer

Anyone know a price on these?

Greebe

Not sure of the price on that Chiah Chyun swiss type machine but definitely more than 40K, maybe 140? maybe more.


You can get some 10-12yr old Mazak's with sub and live tools, and Y for 50-80K, maybe less on some, maybe include a barfeed even. But question is, are you familiar with that stuff enough to program one?

This thing here could be bought for under 30K I'm quite sure. Looks in decent shape, but no pictures of inside. Unfortunately from what I could find they likely don't have much service support, and it was said here that they may be a pain to program but I wouldn't know. Oh and it doesn't have Y.

ReSell CNC Used CNC for Sale

Assuming that you want to make "Phantom" style hiders - you need a Y axis. What you want to doo is possible, but you will need to open up your budget a wee bit.

If you've only ran manuals - you would have fun (?) learning 6 axis.








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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Unless Okuma offers a super deal, though I'm not an okuma person I hear they are good machines, try Hyundia Kia, place I work for got some of them, seem to be pretty good machines. You need a Y axis lathe, if you think you need strong, a Mill turn is the way to go.

With your budget, new is impossible, anything that would fit your bill would be well north of $100K, my old boss has a perfect machine for the job, but he paid $300K. They used to list ridiculous prices, but they are now dropping their pants. Try calling Automatics and Machinery, they seem to have a big co-signed stock of used turning centers in various makes and models. Since they e-mail me daily and call monthly they should be willing to deal. Tell them your specs and let them come up with machines and prices, then share their proposals with us. Personally I can only vouch for Takisawas and Stars.

Thanks for the replies. Sooo.. Not new. I was kind of thinking that might not be possible. Here is the deal. The company is small. Its just a mom and pop type of buisness and I am looking to take us up a notch. What we do is possible on the manual machines but slow. Slow, as all of you guys know, does not get you very far in this modern world of manufacturing.

I know nothing of CNC programing or even running a machine for that matter. I was hoping to possibly pay someone to program our parts and then go from there. I pick things up quickly so I think that with a few classes and messing around on the machine I could figure it out. Hopefully.

With the company's current budget, more would be possible, but would require a loan. With the economy as it is I don't know if I am willing to do that.

So maybe I need to look at a CNC Center that could do all but the milling ops, and then do the milling on our manual mill. Then later look at a CNC Mill.

Would that increase production enough to make it worth the money?

Thanks
Greebe

Ox--

Something similar to the Phantom, but not a Phantom. Stretched A2's and a new one that we are working on.

Did you make those?

Greebe

Hello,

Here is what these guys are talking about a "Y" axis machine, hope this is of some help.

YouTube - Mazak SQT100MSY

Landm1

Landm--

That is exactly the type of machine I had in mind. I'm guessing though that it is way out of my price range.

This is your machine? What is the cost of one of those new?

Thanks
Greebe

Greebe- Check your PMs.

For that type of work I've always been a fan of the Nakamura Tome WT-100. Great machine, just don't know where your company budget lies.

Methods Machine Tools - Machines - Nakamura Tome - WT Series Multitasking Centers

It's a LOT more machine than that Mazak. I don't know which one came out first, but the WT-100 spanks the Mazak, IMO.

Given:
1. Small company
2. No prior programming experience
3. This will be your first CNC, which implies -
4. You've never experienced a CNC repair bill

I would be very cautious about multifunction machines. Start with a small, simple, and easy to maintain CNC lathe or vertical machining center. It doesn't matter which. Either one will improve your productivity to the point where you will soon be able to purchase the other one.

New vs used:
Just one repair bill on a used machine will make you wish you had bought new. There are thousands of mechanically perfect but electrically dead CNC's sitting in shops around the country. Service techs (often incompetent) at $125/hr, plus $1K-$5K each for proprietary circuit boards quickly adds up to more than the value of the machine.

Yeah, Haas makes cheap machines. Our first CNC was a Haas. It was the only machine we could afford at the time. It made us so much money we bought another Haas six months later.

We earned enough money with those Haas machines that we can now afford Okumas.

John Deere--

I checked my messages, but there is nothing in there new since Oct, 09. You might try sending it again. I have had this problem before, messages not getting to me.

Greebe

Great that is encouraging to me. Sounds like you were in the same boat. What was the first Haas that you bought? How long did you have it, or do you still have it? How was the accuracy, dependability, and so forth.

What kind of parts did you produce with it?

Did you have No CNC experience before your first Hass? That is one thing that I noticed that the Haas machine are suppose to be very easy to program. I guess what I have read says that they are more of a human interface design allowing easy programs to be made.

Thanks you very much for you time,
Greebe