Which CNC controls to avoid?

Richard/SIA · Sep 20, 2013

So I'm going to be trying to get a newer CNC Mill.
Not new, but newer than the 1985 Matsuura I have now.

Lots of ads on the web and lots of controls "Under Power" that may be working now but are not well supported.

Is there a list available of what is obsolete, near to obsolete, and about to become obsolete as support is withdrawn?

I know the FANUC 3000 is obsolete, pretty sure 3M and 6M are also obsolete or near to obsolete.
Not sure what the lowest acceptable FANUC number might be if I want to use the machine for another ten years.

Then there are all the other brands, Anilam, Yasnac, Cincinnati, etc.

It seems the iron outlast the silicon.

I really need some guidance to prevent burning myself.
Hopefully there is more to it than just 'Never buy a machine over X years old'.

XD341 · Sep 20, 2013

Yeah stay away from the 6m at least in my experience. I would say anything 16-18-21t or iT is probably going to be supported for a while. Obviously anything newer is better lifespan wise. The Fanuc stuff is so common that you will be able to find parts from somebody for years and years. I think Fanuc claims to maintain parts availability for 25 years, and there are specialty rebuilders out there after that.

PixMan · Sep 20, 2013

Even the Fanuc 0T/0M controls are still well supported, though not as feature laden as the 16, 18, 21, 31, etc.

Some of the older Mazatrols could be hard to get parts for, but I'm not familiar with them. Look up histories on Yasnac controls too. The older MX ones may not be well supported now, and I'd avoid any Bendix Dynapath.

Captdave · Sep 20, 2013

I would add any of the older Fagor 800 or 8025 controls. The newer generation 8055 and above seem pretty decent, so I hear.

pvsora · Sep 20, 2013

How about, avoid any Fagor control. I have an 8035 on a router... ugggg :angry:

ewlsey · Sep 20, 2013

I would say popularity is the best shot at support. I would avoid Heidenhain and the older Siemens controls as they were never popular in the US and parts will be hard to find.

I think any Haas, Okuma, Mazatrol T2 or above, or Fanuc above a 6 or 3 are a safe bet. Also Dynapath Delta 20 or newer are quite popular. I don't know Yasnac or Mitsubishi, but I would not be afraid of one.

There are the dinosaurs. Anything that says GE, Allen Bradley, Bendix, or Moog should be avoided. I would also avoid any Fanuc 5, but the 6s were very popular.

Next, there are the orphans. Any of the Cincinnati PC based controls, Hitachi Seikos may be a Fanuc or Yasnac or something else, Bridgeport, and the Fadal controls. Maybe you can get service, but how long is anyone's guess. Those companies no longer exist.

Lastly, the conversational only controls. I would personally avoid these, but you may like them. That includes Mazatrol, older Brother controls, Prototrak, and some Siemens.

pvsora · Sep 20, 2013

In all seriousness, I would go with a Fanuc or Haas. The other option for the right machine would be a retrofit. Centroid is a surprisingly capable control.

CBlair · Sep 20, 2013

Also the numbers on the Fanuc do not represent age, a Fanuc 0 control can still be bought new now, it is the most basic production control. Watch out for any of the controls that are older than 1990. This is just a date, but it eliminates most of the older Fanucs that others have already warned you about. The Fanuc 6 was the most popular control in the 1980s and I dont think they offered it after 1990 so that is a good starting point. If anyone else has a different opinion now is the time to mention it.

Charles

ewlsey · Sep 20, 2013

I've never seen a Fanuc 6 newer than 1986. Those old controls are funky by modern standards, but they are bulletproof. Don't expect any high speed machining.

About 1990 or so, the higher end Japanese machines began the switch to AC servos. That basically doubled the rapids and feed. Lower end machines like Haas and Fadal followed and any machines newer than 1996 or 1997 should be AC servos.

Prior to 1990 or so, RS232 was the only way to load programs. Then machines started featuring floppy drives. Okuma a Haas were among the first with this. Then came PCMI cards and finally USB. Some of the orphan PC based controls like the Cincinnati, Bridgeport, and some Fadals should have been ethernet cable long before Fanuc, but see my earlier post.

Mud · Sep 20, 2013

PixMan said:
I'd avoid any Bendix Dynapath.

Why Dynapath?

Garwood · Sep 20, 2013

The 6 Fanuc seems like a pretty safe bet to me. They made umpty million of them, lots are still in use and lots of people are very familiar with them.

They aren't fast, but they are cheap to keep running, easy to use and pretty capable for 30+ years old.

Mud · Sep 20, 2013

I'd avoid anything that requires support from Siemens. That now includes all Cincinnati controls. The Cincinnati 850 and 850SX controls are rock solid, but Siemens has instituted a $300 fee PER ISSUE to call support, and their parts prices are gold plated too. Unless you already know the control, or have a good local guy to help, it's going to be expensive to learn how to fix it. This is unfortunate because Cincinnati was the very best for supporting the older machines, now Siemens owns the control division.

swarf_rat · Sep 21, 2013

ewlsey said:
I would say popularity is the best shot at support. I would avoid Heidenhain and the older Siemens controls as they were never popular in the US and parts will be hard to find.

Don't know about Siemens, but my direct experience with Heidenhain is that any control new enough to have a CRT (early 80's), you can get parts directly from Heidenhain in Chicago, and they are pretty reasonably priced too (as these things go...).

JB @ C and L Machine · Sep 21, 2013

Mud said:
I'd avoid anything that requires support from Siemens. That now includes all Cincinnati controls. The Cincinnati 850 and 850SX controls are rock solid, but Siemens has instituted a $300 fee PER ISSUE to call support, and their parts prices are gold plated too. Unless you already know the control, or have a good local guy to help, it's going to be expensive to learn how to fix it. This is unfortunate because Cincinnati was the very best for supporting the older machines, now Siemens owns the control division.

We just found this out !

Ordered a monitor and kti board from England

gustafson · Sep 21, 2013

first avoid anyting old period

second anyone who says you cannot get heidenhian parts has never owned a heidenhain

ewlsey said:
I would say popularity is the best shot at support. I would avoid Heidenhain and the older Siemens controls as they were never popular in the US and parts will be hard to find.

I think any Haas, Okuma, Mazatrol T2 or above, or Fanuc above a 6 or 3 are a safe bet. Also Dynapath Delta 20 or newer are quite popular. I don't know Yasnac or Mitsubishi, but I would not be afraid of one.

There are the dinosaurs. Anything that says GE, Allen Bradley, Bendix, or Moog should be avoided. I would also avoid any Fanuc 5, but the 6s were very popular.

Next, there are the orphans. Any of the Cincinnati PC based controls, Hitachi Seikos may be a Fanuc or Yasnac or something else, Bridgeport, and the Fadal controls. Maybe you can get service, but how long is anyone's guess. Those companies no longer exist.

Lastly, the conversational only controls. I would personally avoid these, but you may like them. That includes Mazatrol, older Brother controls, Prototrak, and some Siemens.

ewlsey · Sep 21, 2013

gustafson said:
first avoid anyting old period

second anyone who says you cannot get heidenhian parts has never owned a heidenhain

Have you ever bought parts for a Fanuc O? Compare ebay offerings vs any Heidehain.

alphonso · Sep 21, 2013

I know nothing about Anilam mill controls, so I can't offer an opinion, but their lathe controls are the worst pieces of shit I have ever been around. You couldn't give me a lathe with an Anilam control on it.

Also the support sucks. Unless you can get aholt of Jerry Bouvier, you're screwed.

DavidScott · Sep 21, 2013

I talked to Yasnac a few months ago. They said they have no plans to stop support on the J50 and I80 controls since there are still a lot of them in use. But, the older they get the harder it will be to get parts.

706jim · Sep 21, 2013

Although I doubt you will come across any, avoid Autonumerics.

From the 70's

Ox · Sep 21, 2013

JB @ C and L Machine said:
We just found this out !

Ordered a monitor and kti board from England

I don't know what for CRT the 850 uses, but there is an outfit Stateside that sells replacement flatscreen touchscreen CRT's for the AC950. Whether they will fit the 850 I wouldn't have a clue.

I would have to search a while to find the contact info tho.

--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

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