Dead Battery-Lost Parameters-Trying to reload .PRG and .OPT Files Mitsubishi Meldas60

Hello All,

I am a long time reader but this is my first post. Tragedy requires action! So I am hoping someone can lend a helping hand.

I woke up last Thursday to a dead 3.6V battery. I guess 12 years was enough. To make a long story short, I lost all machine parameters.

My Machine is an Akiri Seiki Performa V4 20x40 mill.
Mitsubishi Meldas60/60SSeries Controller

Since then, here is what I have done:

1. Replaced batteries
2. Received Factory direct replacement files: V-4XP.OPT and V-4XP.PRM
3. I backed up what files where still on the machine for safety reasons: They are called All1, All2, All3
4. My Machine is communicating with my PC via serial port - I am using CIMCO Editor (came with Mastercam)
5. I called Mitsubishi (depending on who you get they can be unhelpful or the greatest help in the world.) Luckily I got the second.
6. We emptied the machine (data). All the way back till the screen was in Japanese. (that was fun.)
7. I reset-up the I/O parameters manually per Mitsubishi instructions. Got late, call ended with Mitsubishi.
8. I got all the way to the point where I should be able to reinstall the ALL1 file.

This is where I am stuck.

Mitsubishi said I need to INPUT the V-4XP.OPT into the controller as the ALL1 replacement. I go to the INPUT screen. I enter in (99)( ALL1) then hit INPUT.

Apparently this should start talking to my PC(CIMCO) which is ready with the .OPT file. When I hit INPUT, I get an error: E01 Settings Error. So it never attempts to start the upload.

Does anyone have experience with this and can help me reload my settings. I am not an expert. I know enough to be dangerous and know enough to keep the machine running - but not this time. Thanks in advance!

I think you need to leave out the All1. Just 99 then press input. The file has "headers" that let the control know what the file is.

Tried it,with no luck.

Vancbiker said:

I think you need to leave out the All1. Just 99 then press input. The file has "headers" that let the control know what the file is.

Click to expand...

I tried it. Got n E84 Error which is incorrect format data. I think this is improvement because it shows maybe the file is slightly formatted wrong.

Here are the first few lines of the OPT code:

O100
N0LAEFFD27CLE787FBECL1F5291BELC0020526
N1L8100243L1010439L3318L1400F
N2LC0FE304EL200344FL9E84L22080402
N3L1F2D53L6EC70900L1F7F8738L0
N4L1FFEL0L0L0
N5L0L0L0L0
N6L1034405L44L2000000L1
N7L3020101L0L3020503L2010003
N8L1000000L100L0L0
N9L0L0L0L0
N10L800L100L420000L0
N11L800L100L420000L0
N12LC0000L0L3000000L0
N13L100L0L40000L1
N14L0L0L0L0
N15L0L32L0L0
N16L40204C10L28245L400000L0
N17L800LC00000L14000000L10
N18L0L0L0L0
N19L0L0L0L0
N20L0L0L0L0
N21L0L0L0L0

I don't see any "ALL1" Header.

The 99 indicates the data is maintenance related. The O addresses in the file is the "header" that tells the software what the data is. I think you will see in your file there is an O100 followed by a bunch of hexdecimal values separated by the address L. Further down in the file you will see an O101 and more data and so on.

I'm not sure about the E84 error. My manual is for an M50 control and it says for E84 that an I/O operation is not possible and an I/O operation was attempted during another I/O operation. Does your manual say something different? The other Meldas controls I've worked on had the same alarm numbers and meanings.

Also, Have you put the PLC in stop condition? If not, that will also cause a problem when trying to load maintenance files.

I wonder if you can update this thread with your progress - I'm guessing it all worked out for you.

We have a generic Taiwan-made "Mega Mill" 20x40 VMC that we got at the Guru Cycle Works auction in Canada, and it has a Meldas 60s control too. Among other problems, the ER6V battery was also dead, and I just replaced it.

I am the only machinist here, and of course the engineers screwed up the machine before I was hired so it has just sat unused as we try to figure out how to fix it. No service techs want to touch it because it's Canadian (by way of Taiwan), but after reading this I think now I'll call Mitsubishi directly.

First, I'd like to know where you got the files you mentioned: V-4XP.OPT & V-4XP.PRM. Are those Akiri Seiki-specific? Would they not work in another 20x40 VMC with a Meldas 60s control?

What are AII1, AII2 & AII3?

I want to say I can handle fixing this if I just knew what to do.

Veteran Bicycle said:

.....First, I'd like to know where you got the files you mentioned: V-4XP.OPT & V-4XP.PRM. Are those Akiri Seiki-specific? Would they not work in another 20x40 VMC with a Meldas 60s control?

Click to expand...

The files are Akira Seiki specific. Loading them and then trying to run the machine has a high potential to damage your machine and near certainty that it will not operate properly.

If you do not have the files specific to your machine, you will need to get them from the machine builder or another user with the identical machine.

If you have a hard copy printout of the original parameters you may be able to enter them by hand. There are undocumented option configuration parameters. Loading parameters by file transfer restores those, but entering them by hand requires a "special" process. I do not have that information, you would have to speak to Mitsubishi for help with that.

If your ladder file is gone, then AFAIK the only realistic way to load that is by file transfer. Ladder file is generated by the machine builder and would have to be obtained from them.

I was able to contact the original seller of the machine, Megatel, and they provided me with the code I need to install: SM94015.64S & SM94015.PRG. They're only 49kb & 22kb.

Do you have any advice before I call Mitsubishi?

Are you able to send receive data to a PC by RS232? If not, you'll need to get that sorted before anything else. If you do have communication working, have you tried to load the file ...64S?

Veteran Bicycle said:

I wonder if you can update this thread with your progress - I'm guessing it all worked out for you.

We have a generic Taiwan-made "Mega Mill" 20x40 VMC that we got at the Guru Cycle Works auction in Canada, and it has a Meldas 60s control too. Among other problems, the ER6V battery was also dead, and I just replaced it.

I am the only machinist here, and of course the engineers screwed up the machine before I was hired so it has just sat unused as we try to figure out how to fix it. No service techs want to touch it because it's Canadian (by way of Taiwan), but after reading this I think now I'll call Mitsubishi directly.

First, I'd like to know where you got the files you mentioned: V-4XP.OPT & V-4XP.PRM. Are those Akiri Seiki-specific? Would they not work in another 20x40 VMC with a Meldas 60s control?

What are AII1, AII2 & AII3?

I want to say I can handle fixing this if I just knew what to do.

Click to expand...

ALL1, ALL2 and ALL3 are the settings files for the machine/control.

ALL1 contains system common parameters, axis independent parameters, machine error compensation settings, PLC constants, PLC timers, PLC counters, work offsets, R registers, PLC switches, timer and counter values, tool life values, position switch settings, spindle parameters, communication parameters, common variable names and machine operation history.

ALL2 contains your tool data (offsets), and your common variables.

ALL3 is your ladder file. This is the network of switches and settings specific to your machine that the machine builder made when they built the machine. Things like... how does the tool changer operate, what input lines to the CNC control are used by the limit switches, what is the chain of events that must take place for the machine to be in a ready state, etc.

The ALL2 file isn't that important... it's unlikely that anything important was stored in common variables, and you can re-enter/re-calculate your tool offset data easily.

You absolutely need the ALL1 data and the ALL3 data. Without it, the machine won't run. Much of what is in ALL1 is generic and you could reasonably guess at - but some of it you must know the right data. Things like PLC switches and timers, R registers, spindle parameters, etc.

The best place to get that information is from the machine tool builder... they should have records.

If you can't get anything from them, then Mitsubishi is BY FAR THE BEST AND MOST HELPFUL CNC CONTROL MAKER OUT THERE! They offer support for FREE and furthermore, if anyone has ever sent a 60S control back to them that came off a "Mega Mill", they will have a backup of the ALL1, ALL2 and ALL3 files from it. They will of course want you to get that data from the manufacturer, because if you enter wrong parameters your machine could do bad things like overtravel and damage itself, but if you simply cannot get it anywhere else, and if they have a backup from someone else - they will give you a copy.

You have a third option - and it is your best option. The Meldas control as a ROM (read only memory) in it. If your machine tool builder was smart, they would have backed up all the settings to the internal ROM of the machine. They *should* have done this. The ROM of the control persists even if battery power is lost - it is permanent storage - like a hard drive. If your settings were backed up in ROM, then all you need to do is copy it back over to RAM and in about 20 seconds you'll be back up and running.

I don't have a 60S control, I have a Meldas 50M, but the procedure is likely identical - having said that, it wouldn't be a bad idea to check with Mitsubithi if you don't have a manual (you won't break anything provided you don't write RAM to ROM - if you do that, you're screwed... your RAM is corrupted/gone - whatever you do, don't write it to ROM!).

Here's what to do:

1) Stop the ladder.
-Press the FO key
-Press FILE
-Press 4RUN/SP
-Press 1
-Press INPUT on your keypad

If you get a blank screen when you press the FO key, you need to enable a PLC bit... to do that:
-Press TOOL/PARAM
-Press SETUP
-Press Y
-Press INPUT
-Press MENU until you see the PLC menu
-Press the right arrow until you get to page 5/6
-On parameter 6451, change bit number 0 to a 1, like:
#(6451) (-------1)

Now you can access the F0 screen to stop the PLC using the previously listed process.

Once the PLC is stopped you can see what is stored in ROM

-Press FO
-Press IO ST
-Press 4ROMWRT

This screen will show two halves.. on one side it will show RAM, the other will show ROM. Ideally, ROM will not be zero! From this screen you can copy the data from ROM back over to RAM. BE VERY CAREFUL WHICH KEYS YOU PRESS because if you copy RAM over to ROM, you have just deleted the only backup you had. I believe you probably need to format your control before you copy the data from ROM back over to RAM.

To format the control:

-Press TOOL/PARAM
-Press SETUP (soft key)
-Press Y
-Press INPUT
-Press BASE (soft key)
-Press right arrow to get to page 2
-Change parameter #1060 SETUP to 1 and press INPUT

It will ask you "SET BASE PARAMETERS? Y/N". In your case, I would probably choose Y and hit input.
The it will say "FORMAT? Y/N". Then you choose Y. Then you have a blank slate and can copy over the data from ROM to RAM.


But BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE, make sure you have serial communications working and output EVERYTHING in the control first - that way, anything that was good in RAM will be saved before you format it.

You can also output the contents of ROM over the serial connection - I would do that also. SAVE THOSE FILES somewhere safe! Put them on a CD or USB stick and tape them inside the cabinet of the machine for the next guy.




And above all else, whatever you do - DO NOT OVERWRITE ROM!

And again, I recommend calling Mitsubishi before you do this - the above is for a 50M. Should be the same, and the concept is the same - you want to copy ROM over to RAM - but ideally, let them hand-hold you though it. AND BACK EVERYTHING UP FIRST over serial. And again, DON'T OVERWRITE ROM! Only overwrite ROM if/when you get the machine 100% working AND if the contents of ROM did NOT contain a working set of parameter files. Then once you get it working by whatever means, THEN copy all the contents of RAM over to ROM... then the next time you lose everything, you can just copy it back from ROM to RAM and you'll be running in about 20 seconds.

G'luck.

hey SRT Mike

Nice writeup!!!

Couple questions...

When I got my Meldas 50M equipped machine the parameters were toast due to dead battery. I had a paper copy so entered them by hand. Easy, but a bit time consuming. In ROM there was only the ladder and some message files IIRC. Are you saying the contents of the ALL1 file can be stored in ROM too?

In further working on the machine I have looked at the ALL... files and read them in from RS232. On mine, all I have to do to read them back in is just go to the Diagn,I/O screen, press input (touchscreen button on my machine) then key in 99 and press the input hard button then send the file. No need to key in the ALL... name. Is this different than what you do? The 99 tells the control the incoming data is a maintenance file and the file contains O addresses that tell the control what the data is.

And you are right about the backing up multiple copies. I have a PCMCIA card reader on mine that can backup the ALL... files and have them on my PC hard drive and on a thumb drive. If some disaster happens, at least one of those backups should survive.

Wow, thanks for the info!

I called Mitsubishi today, and after sending in the MEAU Field Service Terms form they called me within minutes. Crazy. Even the guy who answered the phone when I first called was really nice and knowledgeable.

I sent John at Megatel another email, this time requesting ALL1, ALL2 & ALL3.

For the record, I have paper versions of all of the parameters and ladder and stuff. When I go in tomorrow I'm going to reread your message and see if anything sticks.

The files they sent you are the All... files. All... is just how you tell the CNC what you want to output. They can be saved in the PC as any valid filename.

Vancbiker said:

The files they sent you are the All... files. All... is just how you tell the CNC what you want to output. They can be saved in the PC as any valid filename.

Click to expand...

But it was only one file. Can you walk me through how to install it?

For starters, do you have RS232 between the CNC and a PC working?

Vancbiker said:

For starters, do you have RS232 between the CNC and a PC working?

Click to expand...

I can vouch for the PC side, and the cables, but I have never used a Mitsubishi control before.

I can't upload a picture for some reason, but here's a link to it in my Google Drive: Does this page look familiar to you? I'm guessing it's here where I upload.

IMG_3572.JPG - Google Drive

Yes, that is the screen where you do the I/O operations. There are a couple other screens for setting the RS232 parameters. You will have to set the parameters to match the setting you PC is using. Here are screenshots of my I/O parameter pages. This is set to use 9600 baud, 7 databits, even parity, 1 stopbit, and hardware handshaking. Your PC may be configured differently so your parameter settings will be different too.




These pages are from a Meldas 50M with a touchscreen so yours will look a bit different.

Once you get to where you can send and receive a test file then you can try loading the files you got from the builder.

Vancbiker said:

hey SRT Mike

Nice writeup!!!

Couple questions...

When I got my Meldas 50M equipped machine the parameters were toast due to dead battery. I had a paper copy so entered them by hand. Easy, but a bit time consuming. In ROM there was only the ladder and some message files IIRC. Are you saying the contents of the ALL1 file can be stored in ROM too?

Click to expand...

I just went and checked the machine - you're correct, it's just the ladder which is saved in ROM. I thought that it was possible to copy over the other settings (the stuff in the ALL1 file) also, but the blank portions of my ROM are for alternate languages and something else... it appears to be pre-configured to hold certain data as opposed to be able to hold whatever data you want to put there. My bad.

In further working on the machine I have looked at the ALL... files and read them in from RS232. On mine, all I have to do to read them back in is just go to the Diagn,I/O screen, press input (touchscreen button on my machine) then key in 99 and press the input hard button then send the file. No need to key in the ALL... name. Is this different than what you do? The 99 tells the control the incoming data is a maintenance file and the file contains O addresses that tell the control what the data is.

Click to expand...

Correct - the O numbers within the program tell the machine which section of the machine settings the subsequent line numbers apply to. If there are any out-of-sequence numbers or data within the O sections, the control will give an error, but you don't need to enter ALL1/ALL2/ALL3 when inputting to my recollection.

And you are right about the backing up multiple copies. I have a PCMCIA card reader on mine that can backup the ALL... files and have them on my PC hard drive and on a thumb drive. If some disaster happens, at least one of those backups should survive.

Click to expand...

Good thinking. I wish I had backed up my machine prior to losing the battery power. I had the manual from the builder which contained the parameters, and they sent me a couple of files where a couple of the settings were different. Some of the settings in my manual (especially spindle parameters) had been crossed out and overwritten in blue ballpoint... I wish someone had documented that. Was it the former owner just messing around? Was it a tech from Mitsubishi doing it? Was it done at the factory as part of a tuning process? Who knows. Also, prior to losing all my settings, I had a custom-written DNC program that worked fine. After losing parameters, it would constantly error. It wasn't the communication settings... after lots of analysis, it seems the issue was how much processing time the actual NC control was devoting to communication vs. processing other tasks (like updating the front panel display, running NC code). It wasn't responding to RS232 as fast, so I had to increase the delays between sending characters/lines to get it to work - total pain in the ass.

I've documented every change I have made to the machine and what wiring I have changed and why - so the next guy can always go back to stock. Thumb drive taped to the cabinet with parameter files is a GREAT idea too!

I just want to follow up on my experience with this issue so far.

I have so far spent several hours on the phone with Mitsubishi MEAU tech support, all totally free of charge. The engineers I spoke to are astonishingly knowledgeable and friendly, and prompt - the called me about an hour after I sent emailed a scan of the Field Service Terms. They walked me through a lot of procedures I would not have known how to do otherwise, like reformatting, etc., and we found the backup parameters in ROM.

In the end though, after also speaking with Megatel, we found out that the machine's options had been deleted. The options are intellectual property and must be installed by the machine builder or by Mitsubishi, in person. Options are what tell the PLC what kind of machine it is installed on and what features the customer paid for. They were blank.

Megatel also finally sent me the ALL files, so Mitsubishi is coming onsite on Monday to service the machine, and hopefully wrap up this mystery.

Veteran Bicycle said:

.......we found out that the machine's options had been deleted. The options are intellectual property and must be installed by the machine builder or by Mitsubishi, in person. Options are what tell the PLC what kind of machine it is installed on and what features the customer paid for. They were blank.

Click to expand...

The option parameters and how to set them is one piece of Meldas information I've never been able to find. Interesting that yours were toast. My Meldas 50M was parameter dead when I got it (it had sat in a warehouse for ~9 years before I got it). I hand loaded the parameters from a paper list, reset the "absolute" encoder positions, tweaked a few other things and it was a runner.

Good to hear that MEAU has been so helpful. I've always heard good things but have never had the need to call them personally.