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CNC lathe

ToadhaulexpreSS

Plastic
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Location
Minnesota
Hey All
Small job shop you know we do it all
Looking to purchase first cnc lathe
What features
What brand and why
What brand to stay away from and why
Live tooling or no
Easiest for set up and programing
Thanks Greg
 
Work envelope?

You really have 3 part envelopes, small bar work under 1", chucker/bar work under 6", and larger, 12, 20, 30, inch envelopes.

Do you do a lot of second operations? If so, live tooling could eliminate those.

Do you do a lot of second side, flip the part around, type of work? A sub spindle would make that a lot faster and help eliminate tolerance stackups.

You could spend $125k on a 8 inch chuck, 21" swing, 16" turn Hardinge with live tool and sub spindle. Or you could find a couple of good used machines and spread the money around and have 2 machines for doing different types of work.

You'd probably be better off getting someting used for $40k and getting your feet wet. There are several good makers with reasonable resale prices, Daewoo Puma comes to mind.
 
I agree that if you do a lot of secondary milling on workpeces, look for live tooling on the lathe you buy. At the very least, if you don't do much work at all between centers, do get one with a sub-spindle! Dropping parts off without any need for deburring is very worthwhile.

I've long believed that a well-optioned, well-tooled used lathe is a better bet than a new one without. If budget allows, new with warranty is nice, but the bigger-name units are very reliable. If I was in the market, I'd look for a used Mori Seiki, Nakamura-Tome, Mazak or Okuma first. The only bad experiences I've had were with new machines from a certain Korean maker that rhymes with "Doosan". ;)
 
If programming is going to be new to your shop, it's got to be a primary consideration in your purchase decision.

Mazak's have probably the best conversational programming system available for cnc lathes, Mazatrol. If you get a g-code machine, then you need a good cad/cam system like Mastercam or Gibbs.

I agree with Pixman on the 4 best manufacturers of cnc lathes, and that these brands are going to be stone reliable.
 
We have both Okuma and Daewoo. Not going to buy any more Okuma (some of it is because of the distributor), but the Daewoo has been rock solid. I agree with comments about live tooling. May stay away from it if it is your first CNC, if you are familiar with it and can afford it, get it. RJT
 
If you are new to g code, you might find an old mori around with FAPT on it. I still see them on ebay sometimes. An old sl-3h with fapt is very fast to set up and program, I have seen them in the $20k range. I am thinking about picking up a second one myself.
 
Lathes come in 3 levels -

Budget - This is a price driven market that is lower on features and low on price. This is also the most populated area of the market. If you do not have a rock solid distributor in your area that has at least 10 - 15 service guys dedicated to the products, value may be a mistake. The USA builders, Taiwanese and eastern European machines take up this market. If you are after a machine that is not going to last a long time, that will be a quick hit try it and see if you can get work for it, this may be the area for you and your shop.

Value - This is a more defined market area were quality and performance rises above your average 2 axis lathe. The Korean builders and some lower end Japanese builders are here. This is a mix, and again you are looking for a good support network that has local parts. These machines will last and retain a good amount of there value. A higher reward and less risky option to a new shop.

Performance - This area is populated buy Japanese builders who make great machines by hand. If you pick one of the Japanese builders you are going to get longer life, good support, great accuracy over time, and good retention of value over time. Some Japanese builders make 2 lines of lathes, one Value, one Performance. This area is the least risky. If you can afford to buy a machine of this caliber, you will be buying a machine that will be a solid performer over its life span.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for feedback
Working with G code is no problem hell I remember working with punch tapes plus we have surfcam
Size is a issue we are struggling with like I said we do it all
We would really like the live tooling if we can fit it into the budget seems like no one orders plain round parts anymore have a butt load of round parts in the mill now only because I can do a string of them then flip for second and third ops
The word USED scares me I don't have the time to be playing with problems would like something solid and dependable
Back of my mind I am always thinking why did the get rid of the machine in the first place
Greg
 
Thanks for feedback
Working with G code is no problem hell I remember working with punch tapes plus we have surfcam
Size is a issue we are struggling with like I said we do it all
We would really like the live tooling if we can fit it into the budget seems like no one orders plain round parts anymore have a butt load of round parts in the mill now only because I can do a string of them then flip for second and third ops
The word USED scares me I don't have the time to be playing with problems would like something solid and dependable
Back of my mind I am always thinking why did the get rid of the machine in the first place
Greg

You may want to look into multipurpose machines like the Mazak Integrex, and other manufacturers of the same type machine. While the initial investment is higher, these machines allow you to finish many parts in one machine, no matter the features needed on the part. Most have a large work envelope.
 
Also, dont buy a machine without a barfeeder. Get a little 6 footer and let it run, and have your operator do other things.

What are your part size requirements, and what is your budget? I think we have to establish that before we all could help you more.
 
Thanks for the replies
Having some run time I've been searching on the web for used lathes good grief there is a ton of them out there information overload looked at to many how do you know its not a crashed piece of junk?
Been thinking we would like something with a 8" chuck budget willing to go 40-60k for something that's going to last don't know if thats realistic or not

Type of work
Over 6" not much
Between centers not much
Mat. everything
Quanity 1-200
Secondary ops almost everything
 
For an 8" chuck cnc lathe in the 40k-60k range, you're options are somewhat limited for a new machine. Maybe a Haas, or a Taiwanese machine.

A good used Japanese machine can be had for that kind of cash. A used Mazak, Mori Seiki, Okuma, or Nakamura Tome will give as good or better service than a new Haas or Taiwanese machine. Parts and service are no problem with the premeire Japanese machines.

The cost of ownership for one of these top-of-the-line Japnese lathes will be less than buying a "2nd tier" new machine. You can buy a used Japanese machine for say $50k, run it 5 years, and sell it for $35k.

A new, cheaper machine might be had for $60k, but after 5 years, you'll be lucky to get $20k for it.

I will say again, Mazak has the best and most powerful conversational programming system on the planet.

Let us know what you decide.

Greg
 
Mazaks really seem quite popular in job shops and on short runs that you want to program pretty quick right there at the control.
The brand new machines are fairly reasonable on price it seems, but closer to 100K than 60..

Hardinge SV series maybe?
 
Give Granquist a buzz and ask about a Hwachheon HiTech-200. 8" chuck, good footprint, hardened box ways, and in your price range. You should be able to get a nice MTA barfeed as well.

http://www.hwacheon.com/pdf/HT200.pdf

Milton Granquist Company
3515 48th Avenue North
Minneapolis, MN, USA 55429-3932
(763) 533-6300
FAX: (763) 533-8571
 
Good people at Milton Granquist too, I would add. When I worked for vmcman, I was sent there to setup and demo a trio of Maier CNC sliding headstock (a.k.a. Swiss type) lathes, and got a good look at the Hwacheon in action. I'd put them in the "value" slot.

Buy from Bob, Pat or Steve over there, you'll get great price and support.
 
We have had a Hardinge Talent 8/52 SV for about a year and a half now. Typical 2" bar, 12 tool, with tailstock and parts catcher. It has been a great machine so far. We tend to do relatively light high speed work in aluminum.


We got it with the LNS Eco Load barfeed. Not a bad combination. I would also vote for a barfeed if you have the budget.

Priced about where you are looking without the barfeed.

They call it a Talent SV200 now.
 








 
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