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  1. #1
    SDConcepts is offline Stainless
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    Default differences between fadal 88 and 88hs control

    i'm looking at buying a 93 fadal 3016. it has low hours looks to be in good shape. anything i should look in particular? what are the main differences between the 88 and 88hs controls? is there a reason to stay away from one or the other? everything on this machine looks good, but honestly i don't know enough about fadals to make a decision.

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    Bobw's Avatar
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    Check the Fadal section over at *******, there was just a thread on this. If I recall the only real difference was that the 88HS had the space bar menus, the 88 didn't, so you actually had to remember all of the commands.

    The other thing I recall reading somewhere is that all '93's had the 88HS control, just some of the first ones off the line ended up in leftover 88 boxes.

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    SDConcepts is offline Stainless
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    thanks i'll check the zone. but if anyone else has any constructive comments let me know or anything to seriously watch out for.

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    Bobw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDConcepts View Post
    anything i should look in particular?
    Woops, only answered one question. Brought in a '93 4020 last January. If somebody is selling it, I can guarantee there are few things wrong with it, and pretty much everything on it is cheap and easy to fix.

    If the screws are loud, 99% chance its not the screws, the thrust bearings go bad with great frequency, especially if it has the water cooled screws, the seal leaks and it dumps directly into the thrust bearings. About $80 a set to replace and not very difficult, I also suggest beefing up the motor couplings while you are in there, they are really not attached to the motor or the screw very well and can be a serious source of lost motion(back lash).

    Tool retention can be a problem, and a reason I think a lot of people get rid of them is busted bellevilles, $50 for the bellevilles, and $20 for the drawbar floater which can have a huge influence on tool retention.

    It should be a box way machine, totally adjustable, though a bit of a PIA. The older gibs where steel with turcite, which seem to get trashed, especially the lower ones on the Y axis. 4@$45 a piece fixes that with bronze gibs.

    If the toolchanger is having problems, a lot of times its just chips built up in the slides, which can lift the carousel up and cause a bunch of headaches. 2 minutes with an airhose and that is fixed.

    Example, when the '93 I have came in, it had .015 of slop in the Y and .005 in the X, thrust bearings, 4 gibs, and a little bit of time tweaking it all in, and its pretty much dead nuts now, no witness marks on the quadrants, decent machine that is easy to fix, especially for the money they are going for right now.

  5. #5
    micro's Avatar
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    The HS stood for High Speed and had a greater look ahead and faster processor IIRC. If you are doing 3D surfacing it's a must. We have an early 90's 3020 with the 88HS control. The nested menus are a PIA and the tool changes are GlACIAL but the machine has been plugging away for 5 years now (no idea how many hours it had on it when we got it.) with no issues to speak of. Definitely made the company money.

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    SDConcepts is offline Stainless
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    well i went to look at the machine this morning and its a 92 with an 88 control. right now i don't have any call for 3d profiling work but wouldn't turn it away. there are a bunch of tool holders with the mill and it needs a low speed belt and an x axis bearing. the bearings are not the cooled units so the y and z sound fine. what would be a fair price to offer for the machine?

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    NJGunnar is offline Aluminum
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    Inspect the ways on the X and Y axis for oil. You may need to remove the sheetmetal covers to do this or use a mirror. The reason I say this is they use hoses to feed oil to the saddle, these hoses lay inside a sheetmetal trough, if the trough gets packed with chips the hose can break.This is most likely caused by letting the chips get to deep and blowing chips with a air hose. If the ways are'nt getting oil the Turcite seems to keep the machine from complaining much until its too late.

    If you do get the machine take some time and inspect the piston for the drawbar. They have a somewhat limited life span and are prone to cracking and when they do it can raise hell with the tool changer. It's pretty easy to inspect and replace.

    As for the price I would have a look at what recent Ebay auctions for similar Fadals have ended at. I have'nt payed much attention to them lately but bet the truely decent ones go for around 10K.

    Gunnar

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    Bobw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDConcepts View Post
    what would be a fair price to offer for the machine?
    Private sale, I'd start at 6k in the bargaining. Fair value, I'll vote with NJGunnar, 10k if you like the condition. I probably wouldn't go over that, there are a lot of these machines out there, and they are going dirt cheap lately.

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    micro's Avatar
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    The price of Fadals as well as Haas machines has dropped like a stone recently. For $15K you can get a newer machine with no issues. Unless you get this one for under $10K I wouldn't was my time. Do a search on eBay for fadal and you quickly get and Idea of whats out there and what they are going for.

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    SDConcepts is offline Stainless
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    well they wouldn't deal and are firm on their $12,000 price tag. so we passed. not really a need to have but would have bought if the price was right.

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    Bobw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDConcepts View Post
    well they wouldn't deal and are firm on their $12,000 price tag. so we passed. not really a need to have but would have bought if the price was right.
    They won't get it, a year ago before prices started dropping like Britney Spears underwear(dental floss contraption) I got a '93 4020, Thru Spindle Coolant, and extended 28" Z with a subplate for $12,900, no rigid tapping but nothing is perfect.

    Every time a machine falls through, its for a reason, it means the deal of the century is coming up, and you're destined for it. I've never had a deal on a machine fall through that in the long run, I've felt bad about.

  12. #12
    SDConcepts is offline Stainless
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    i'm not all that worried about it, i would like to get into a haas machine personally since i have experience running those. this board is invaluable with the amount of knowledge floating around.

    thanks guys for the input.

  13. #13
    Kris P is offline Hot Rolled
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    Guys, any thoughts on the newer Fadals? In the early 2000's. I am looking for a larger machine, to replace my little 17 X 12. I am torn between a 40 X 20 and a 30 X 16. I am not picky on the brand, some of the Fadals are in my price range but know nothing of them and their service. Prices keep coming down so I'm looking for a deal. Fadals aren't real popular in my area, mostly Hurco and Haas in these parts.

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    SDConcepts is offline Stainless
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    Well throught i'd post an update. i ended up buying the fadal 3016. the owner decided to deal after another sale fell through and i got a bunch of tooling along with the machine. there are 35 holders, 2 tapping heads, a bunch of er and DA collets, etc. final price was $10,900 and they included shipping as well. the one thing i didn't get is any manuals with the machine.

    can someone run down how to touch off tools on this machine? also i want to run 3 different vises with offsets g55, g56, g57 and would like to know how to set these offsets as well. thanks

    Jerry

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    Bobw's Avatar
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    http://www.fadalcnc.com/fadal_Tech_Docs1.htm

    For the manuals, they are generic and cover a bunch of years, but should have plenty of info to get you going.

    As for setting tools, no idea on the 88

    As for programming, run in it in Format 2 and its standard Fanuc-ese. It will take G54s etc. But you can also use E#s, I like that, since fixture offset 1 is E1, called up the same as G54s G55s....

  16. #16
    NJGunnar is offline Aluminum
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    From bobw's link;

    http://www.fadalcnc.com/Tech_files/O...atorManual.pdf

    Scroll down to page 35-36 and read about the SL command.

    Gunnar

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