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09-17-2012, 09:34 AM #1
DMG/Mori Milltap 700 video from IMTS
09-17-2012, 10:41 AM #2
They sure got the esthetics down.
But doesn't that Z clearance look pretty crapped up, either cause that indexer looks so darn big for the machine, or maybe the bigger tool carousel takes up some room.
09-17-2012, 11:43 AM #3
(on edit) Axis travels XYZ are 700/420/380. Distance table to Z-work area is 200mm. Not sure how to interpret the 380 versus 200... is 200mm the distance from Z spindle face to table with Z lowered all the way ?
09-17-2012, 12:49 PM #4
Izzat a 30 taper machine?
Too bad it was just dancing, I'd like to see it makin' chips.
jamesu229 liked this post
09-17-2012, 12:51 PM #5
09-17-2012, 02:02 PM #6
I don't really care for that toolchanger, you flood the tool with coolant and then rotate around to another tool and you have all that coolant slop and no doubt chips running down the tool? You do a toolchange and the one you were just using is now on the top? How can that not all run down on the tool taper?
09-17-2012, 02:43 PM #7
Brother actually won't let you have 1000PSI coolant for just that reason. It would pack chips in the carousel and mess things up. If you want 1000PSI, you have to get the swing arm changer.
That said, those tool changers are damn fast.
09-17-2012, 07:02 PM #8
I saw this h'yah thread before I went to the show, and was not overly impressed with this machine.
...but they had 3 of them there....
What are you guys seeing so fascinating?
(or rather - what are they saying is so special about it?)
I talked to the feller there and he said that it WAS built in Japan (Pretty sure not Germany?) But definately NOT Tiawann or China!
I did like the fact that the spindle is NOT a quill. It is no differ'nt than any other VMC in design really. (spindle/column wise)
I have no clue what the Sister or Fanuc machines use?
But the Sister and Fanuc machines change tools a lot faster than this - don't they?
Just lookin' to see what the benefit of this machine over the others is - unless it is just for Mori die-hards that are lookin' for such a machine?
I am Ox and I approve this h'yah post!
09-17-2012, 07:30 PM #9
The demonstrator said the machine is now outperforming the spec - it achieves 0.9 sec tool change and chip to chip is just over 1.1 seconds. Faster than Robo or Brother I think.
09-17-2012, 08:36 PM #10
The pdf on the dmg says 1.1 tool to tool, "under" 1.5 chip to chip which is pretty standard. Now considering some walked out of there thinking this thing has 33.5hp, I have my doubts about anything a demonstrator/sales guy tells ya, ok maybe they are beating their initial time, but .2 sec ain't much time to wind down and be back up to speed, maybe that's where that 25kw peak comes in? but there's gotta be a real world limit there somewhere, kinda like trying to reach the speed of light thing...
Brother usually specs .9sec tool to tool and 1.6 to 2sec chip to chip depending on machine.
Just from the pictures/videos, I'd say I like the Brother tool changer better. As can be seen in this video below, it seems to keep tools pretty well guarded and the whole carousel doesn't hinge in and out, making it "out" while its cutting as some older machines used, and this dmg/mori does from the looks of it.
Brother TC-S2D-O 21 Tool Random Tool Change Test.MOV - YouTube
Any word on how the Haas DT-1 is selling?
09-17-2012, 08:43 PM #11
Inspecting the part on the table without getting my bald head jabbed by the other tools is a problem.
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09-17-2012, 10:38 PM #12
The consistent story on HP for this machine is 33.5 HP. Either 10k or 24k. The marketing manager for the machine (guy from Holland) was quite clear when questioned about it. Got the same story the next day from another DMG person. Same thing on the 1.1 sec chip to chip.
09-17-2012, 11:10 PM #13
[In the displays that I have seen in previous years of the other machines]
Maybe the Fanuc and Sister machines had some other actions during the M6 to make it look like a lot was going on? Like maybe some A axis moves and or X/Y moves during the RAPID to HOME position and some X/Y and or A moves during the approach to make it seem that much faster?
I am sure that the Mori machine didn't have any extra motion, and thus may have not seemed as fast to me as the mental pic that I have?
I know that DT1 (?) Haas is too fast for me to see the t/c arm!
It is impressive, but at the same time - seems like a problem waiting to happen.
This Mori didn't seem like it was opperating out of the comfort level to me.
Think Snow Eh!
09-17-2012, 11:35 PM #14
Ox, I think you are right on the potential for problems. MickeyD told me today that someone in Austin has two of them and is not happy with the level of problems/service. I am interested to hear the details on that story - time will tell if the problems are just start up problems or design problems.
09-18-2012, 01:02 AM #15
09-18-2012, 01:54 AM #16
Looking at the mori, it has bigger rails than a robodrill and they are further apart. So I would say that it would take bigger cuts better than a robodrill.
That said, we are more than pleased with our 2 (robodrills that is).
Ref the swarf on taper - we got our plc changed so on tool change, the tool goes up and turret indexes, turret lowers to 1.5" (low and right over the tool) and dwells for just over a second while the air blasts the taper, then continues.
Yes it adds a little to the toolchange time, but we have almost eliminated scrapping parts.
OX - it depends upon what work you have, but these machines are great for general (ally) machining. The robodrill is so fast to set up as well - it would make a great prototype machine.
Load tools in and out so quickly, and at an M30 you can see if any tools are broken and remove any swarf quickly from taps or drills.
09-18-2012, 04:01 AM #17
In answer to Ox, the Brother uses a VMC style V column for the spindle, not a quill type. It's a relatively substantial casting. A second non-moveable V shaped casting outside the spindle column supports the tool changer. The tool change sequence (except turret rotation) for the Brother is dead simple mechanical actuation and very reliable. The tools and spindle taper are washed via filtered coolant at each tool change so chips aren't a problem (or haven't been on ours anyway.)
09-18-2012, 06:36 AM #18
That must be why the spec sheet says 4.5kw/cont for the 10K and 4kw/cont for the 24K, and they make sure to keep the time rating for that 25kw"33.5hp" well hidden, HAAS style. But eh, most of them are doing it and plenty of buyers "buying" into it. I've seen enough 30hp/cont motors to know there sure as hell ain't one hanging on that thing.
Again, Cont/30min rating is all that should ever matter, main 10min at worse.
Don't let the spew of a salesman trump common sense, or the basics of electrical engineering for that matter.
09-18-2012, 07:30 AM #19
How many ponies doo you really need?
I for one don't even WANT any more ponies tied up in the barn than I can utilize.
You hafta feed them all, whether you are fitt'n ground or not!
You think that your little drill/tap machine needs as much power as a 50 taper HMC?
I have had a cpl small Cinci's built in the early 80's for 20 yrs. They are rated at 5 HP, and have a geared head. I have stalled them on occassion, but not been THAT much of an issue. Just hthe thought of having 2x as much on tap would seem a plenty.
I am Ox and I approve this h'yah post!
09-18-2012, 07:49 AM #20
Yeah, its just the game that shopvac's and haas then took to the machining industry and most have since dumbed down to it, at least hurco's hp/torque charts they had on their website had the decency to state their peak hp is rated at 1min, don't know if they're on their new website, that thing is way too busy looking for me. While certain others choose to completely not disclose the duty cycle they base their foolish numbers on, unless its in the fine print on that other page of that other book that nobody showed but you shoulda known it was there. But as far as I'm concerned if its not on the same spec sheet as I'm looking, its false advertising, and taking customers for idiots, and quite frankly being right probably half the time at least. Any kw or hp rating without a duty cycle, coming of the mouth of a salesman, is worthless!