Doosan DNM 5700 vs YCM NXV for mold works

Floyd29 · Aug 22, 2017

Hi,

I have been researching on various bugdet VMC's that can do good job for our toolroom where we make compression & Injection moulds on SS & P20 type materials.

Over the past four months with the help of this forum we have come across various machines such as Makino PS, Okuma Genos , YCM NXV , Hardinge GX, DMG MORI CMX , Hwacheon Vesta & Doosan DNM.

Probably, Okuma does stand out the most. If our finances allow we will go for Okuma Genos 560V. However, in case finances doesn't then we shall have to find our next choice. We have to choose between YCM NXV or Doosan DNM 5700

Both machines are on Roller bearing, 12K Spindle RPM & Fanuc Oi controller with 400 look ahead.

The main differences are as follows-

- YCM spindle lubrication is Air-oil mist & Doosan uses Greese Lubrication.
- YCM is offering more power on axis motor. YCM 3 KW on x & Y axis & Doosan 1.8 KW on X & Y axis
-YCM is offering 15K RPM as option. With Doosam max possible is 12K RPM.
- Doosam machine weight is 6500 kg whereas YCM - 5500 kg

Your expert opinions will help us in finalising our VMC. Looking forward to hear from users.

Thanks a lot.

XD341 · Aug 22, 2017

That's how you ask for help. Enough information, lists, details, facts..a specific question...well done.

I've heard good things about the DNM mills, everyone that has one seems satisfied. That being said the 15K spindle with the air mist lube is nice. Both are good names. For me it would come down to service in your area and the type of work you are going to do. If lots of fine details using tiny tools is what you are going to be doing the 15K spindle might be the way to go. If it's larger work and less detailed the 12K spindle is probably plenty.

red beard · Aug 22, 2017

You may want to double-check the specs on the YCM linear guides. The specs that I received on the NXV 1020A were 40mm THK NR TYPE, which are ball-type linear guides not roller guides.

The Doosan has Roller guides (35mm on X and 45mm on the Y&Z). I think this would definitely be an advantage to the Doosan.

bryan_machine · Aug 22, 2017

What spindle tooling type are you planning on? Opinons differ but it seems that somewhere between 10,000rpm and 15,000rpm you would want to switch from Cat-40 or BT-40 to Dual Contact or to HSK. Seems to me that Doosans are usually Big-Kaiser dual contact, no? Is the YCM?

Also, for mold work, I would think you care about the controller - are they offering the same controller (could be) with the same look-ahead and motion smoothing?

DouglasJRizzo · Aug 22, 2017

Well, I'm a bit jaded.

I work or them.

But the Doosan is a great value. FYI - we're starting to put 15k spindles on DNM machines so check with your dealer, we just shipped one out of the showroom this week. 15k spindles are air/oil mist on Doosan DNMs, btw.

The roller guides on the Doosan are very beefy, and all mating surfaces are ground. Ballscrews are large as well.

30 ATC standard, 40 and 60 optional.
All Doosan spindles are Big-Plus full contact.
Through Spindle coolant standard, high pressure optional and worth it.
Pre-wired for Renishaw Spindle Probe and Tool setter, software is already installed as is all hardware. Buy the probe and T-setter when you order the machine and you're ready to go!.

Fanuc 0iM-F CNC. Get the smooth surface option and maximum look ahead. There's also a Fanuc high speed data server option if you need.

-Doug

Milland · Aug 22, 2017

For mold work I would get confirmation of thermal management for both machines. The more stable the thermal growth, especially for the spindle, the better tool heights will be managed over a long cut, and so the better the mold finish.

I'm not sure how you'd get good results except to ask for a test run using identical materials and tooling (which you'd supply) and your long program.

Floyd29 · Aug 23, 2017

XD341 said:
That's how you ask for help. Enough information, lists, details, facts..a specific question...well done.

I've heard good things about the DNM mills, everyone that has one seems satisfied. That being said the 15K spindle with the air mist lube is nice. Both are good names. For me it would come down to service in your area and the type of work you are going to do. If lots of fine details using tiny tools is what you are going to be doing the 15K spindle might be the way to go. If it's larger work and less detailed the 12K spindle is probably plenty.

Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
I just asked Doosan, if they can offer 15K RPM with Oil-air mist spindle.
Majority of the material in our moulds is removed using 22mm & 16mm end mills.
But we do have to make intricate designs or patterns on most of ours molds that require use of 1mm, 2mm & 3mm ball mills. We need single machine to do this job. Off course we will continue to use EDM for those patterns but if most of it can worked out of VMC that would be great.
Thanks

5 axis Fidia guy · Aug 23, 2017

I would never even consider a grease pack 12k spindle for mold work. Even 15k is inadequate for anything under 6mm dia.

LockNut · Aug 23, 2017

Floyd29 said:
Hi,

I have been researching on various bugdet VMC's that can do good job for our toolroom where we make compression & Injection moulds on SS & P20 type materials.

Over the past four months with the help of this forum we have come across various machines such as Makino PS, Okuma Genos , YCM NXV , Hardinge GX, DMG MORI CMX , Hwacheon Vesta & Doosan DNM.

Probably, Okuma does stand out the most. If our finances allow we will go for Okuma Genos 560V. However, in case finances doesn't then we shall have to find our next choice. We have to choose between YCM NXV or Doosan DNM 5700

Both machines are on Roller bearing, 12K Spindle RPM & Fanuc Oi controller with 400 look ahead.

The main differences are as follows-

- YCM spindle lubrication is Air-oil mist & Doosan uses Greese Lubrication.
- YCM is offering more power on axis motor. YCM 3 KW on x & Y axis & Doosan 1.8 KW on X & Y axis
-YCM is offering 15K RPM as option. With Doosam max possible is 12K RPM.
- Doosam machine weight is 6500 kg whereas YCM - 5500 kg

Your expert opinions will help us in finalising our VMC. Looking forward to hear from users.

Thanks a lot.

I will preface this with the fact that I work for Doosan.
The Doosan has grease lube for all the axis and air oil mist for the spindle bearings.

I would be careful withe power numbers. Off the top of my head I know we can pull significant loads with all 3 axis.

The Dnm 5700 now has a 15K spindle with the same torque values as the 12K spindle.

The extra weight is your friend, it's what makes this machine perform like it does with heavy cuts.

Want more info? Call me at 973-618-2457

Paul Anderson
Applications Engineer.

Alloy Mcgraw · Aug 23, 2017

You might want to look at the YCM NSV series. Not a huge difference in price (To the NXV) when compared to how much machine you get for your money.

I just looked at the Doosan DNM500 and the YCM NXV/NSV machines and bought a YCM NSV102A. If I had to go between the Doosan DNM 500 and the YCM NXV series I would have went Doosan. As mentioned above the YCM NXV is ball guideways, the Doosan is roller. The NSV Series you get true double roller ways(6 Trucks in X), 2400ipm rapids, and a 40hp 15k rpm chilled spindle.

Floyd29 · Aug 23, 2017

Alloy Mcgraw said:
You might want to look at the YCM NSV series. Not a huge difference in price (To the NXV) when compared to how much machine you get for your money.

I just looked at the Doosan DNM500 and the YCM NXV/NSV machines and bought a YCM NSV102A. If I had to go between the Doosan DNM 500 and the YCM NXV series I would have went Doosan. As mentioned above the YCM NXV is ball guideways, the Doosan is roller. The NSV Series you get true double roller ways(6 Trucks in X), 2400ipm rapids, and a 40hp 15k rpm chilled spindle.

You are right about YCM NSV. Its a fantastic machine. But the price is much difference between YCM NXV & NSV is approx 30K USD. Further, the prise of YCM NSV comes very close to Okuma Genos M 560. But certainly its a very powerful machine.

To the best of my knowledge - YCM NXV 1020 AM has roller bearings on all three axis. But ill confirm that with YCM. Probably YCM NXV 1020 A has ball bearings. However, NXV has only four support blocks along X axis. Do you know how many support blocks does Doosan DNM 5700 has along X axis?

Floyd29 · Aug 23, 2017

LockNut said:
I will preface this with the fact that I work for Doosan.
The Doosan has grease lube for all the axis and air oil mist for the spindle bearings.

I would be careful withe power numbers. Off the top of my head I know we can pull significant loads with all 3 axis.

The Dnm 5700 now has a 15K spindle with the same torque values as the 12K spindle.

The extra weight is your friend, it's what makes this machine perform like it does with heavy cuts.

Want more info? Call me at 973-618-2457

Paul Anderson
Applications Engineer.

Hi,
I will certainly call you in sometime. Let me know your preferred time.
I have just asked Doosan about more info regarding 15K Air oil Spindle. Hope to hear from them soon. Once I hear from them I shall give you a call for better understanding. Do you know how many support blocks Doosan offers on DNM 5700 along X axis? Also do they offer double nut with ball screw?
Thanks

Floyd29 · Aug 23, 2017

5 axis Fidia guy said:
I would never even consider a grease pack 12k spindle for mold work. Even 15k is inadequate for anything under 6mm dia.

Thanks for your reply. We were initially considering going for 20K RPM spindle. However, some initial research revealed that with such high RPM spindle its not a good idea to go for lot of rough cuts with bigger dia cutters such 22mm & all.I think bearing of such RPM spindle are not robust enough to take rough cuts. We need a machine that can perform roughing to finishing. though I wish to have luxury of having separate machine for finishing. Do you think it will be OK to perform rough cuts on 20K spindle?
We can certainly opt for smaller depth of cut & slower feed if it helps. We have captive toolroom & make moulds only for our own use so spending some extra time would not be a big problem.
Please let me know your take on this subject.
Up till now the only 20K RPM vmc that we have come across near our budget is Hyundai Wia KF series.

Alloy Mcgraw · Aug 23, 2017

Floyd29 said:
You are right about YCM NSV. Its a fantastic machine. But the price is much difference between YCM NXV & NSV is approx 30K USD. Further, the prise of YCM NSV comes very close to Okuma Genos M 560. But certainly its a very powerful machine.

To the best of my knowledge - YCM NXV 1020 AM has roller bearings on all three axis. But ill confirm that with YCM. Probably YCM NXV 1020 A has ball bearings. However, NXV has only four support blocks along X axis. Do you know how many support blocks does Doosan DNM 5700 has along X axis?

You might be right about the NXV 1020AM, it might have rollers, I just don't remember. I believe the Doosan to have 4 trucks in X.

bizgec · Nov 16, 2018

Hi!

I just get new DNM 5700 with siemens 828d.

How much blocks do you need for 3d mold milling?

This 828d have 150 blocks look ahead.

Next week, going to make first chips.. :drool5:

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Doosan DNM 5700 vs YCM NXV for mold works

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