Doosan Milling Machines and comparable brands

baran3 · Dec 8, 2014

I am looking for opinions on comparable CNC milling machine tool brands to Doosan. I am interested in machines that are on the same level or higher quality. Example as if someone has the opinion of, "for the amount of money you spend on a Doosan you might as well spend a little more and get a XXXX machine". I am also interested in general opinions of the brand. I have a DNM400 and may be thinking of getting another mill in the future. I am happy with the Doosan, but also want to explore other possibilities to some degree. I am a small shop. Don't do much production. Most stuff has a high emphasis on tolerance and appearance. Work mostly with aluminum, but of course will cut almost anything that comes through the door.

Jashley73 · Dec 8, 2014

Lots of people have plenty good to say about Doosan machines, so they can't all be wrong. I'm not sure where Doosan's price comes in though. However, I'd take a good hard look at an Okuma Genos mill before making a decision. Plus, with Japan entering a recession, the exchange rates may make premium Japanese machines cheaper than they've ever been...

Okuma Genos M560-V

Kingbob · Dec 8, 2014

you can't really have this conversation without mention Japan's top machine tool companies - Mazak - DMG/Mori - Okuma - Matsuura - Makino.
There is other great bands out there this is just my personal short list. That being said I run an all mazak shop (with the exception of one large haas mill) with 9 mazak machines so my experience with the others on my list is limited to 2nd hand accounts.

dstryr · Dec 8, 2014

Doosan is a great job shop machine. Base models are priced very well. It isn't until you option them all the way out that the price gets closer to the better builders. I have 2 Doosans no problems. My friends shop has 6 now. No complaints. It just depends on what you use them for. Unless you option them out they are not a good surfacing machine because they come with the oi control. Upgrade to the 31i, add the look ahead and you are within 10% of Japanese pricing.

baran3 · Dec 8, 2014

dstryr said:
Doosan is a great job shop machine. Base models are priced very well. It isn't until you option them all the way out that the price gets closer to the better builders. I have 2 Doosans no problems. My friends shop has 6 now. No complaints. It just depends on what you use them for. Unless you option them out they are not a good surfacing machine because they come with the oi control. Upgrade to the 31i, add the look ahead and you are within 10% of Japanese pricing.

I have 200 block look ahead on an Oi control. What are the added features and benefits that come with the 31i control?

Edster · Dec 8, 2014

+1 on Okuma Genos mills

2outof3 · Dec 8, 2014

I must do this.

Brother Speedio S700.

jid2 · Dec 8, 2014

^^^^ I hear those are pretty sweet! The Brothers are fast and reliable. dstryr has some good info on cycle time reduction from a Doosan to a Brother.

KENMASTERS · Dec 9, 2014

The shop I work at just bought a Mazak 510c priced about 5-10 k more than the Doosan for the same options we got witch was tool pre-setter and chip conveyor.
having conversational programing option is nice for doing fast simple parts so that is a plus for Mazak. Also my ears like the fact that the spindle does NOT have that
high pitch scream at the higher spindle speeds like most other vmc's do. ( never ran a Doosan though ).
Made in the U.S.A. ( Kentucky ) was another selling point for my boss.
The control to me is really a step above the Fanuc's I am running or have ran in the past. Its more user friendly, no need to turn on g08 or aicc for look ahead and
editing programs is easier due to find and replace option and no need for input and alter buttons, just del what you don't want and type in what you do.
Other than that the doosans look fairly similar...u want something a lot diff the brothers do look interesting. ( again never ran one )

motofab555 · Dec 9, 2014

Take the time to look at the Okuma. The control is lightyears ahead of the Fanuc. Yes I do have all Okumas but have worked with Fanucs and never want to go back

baran3 · Dec 9, 2014

motofab555 said:
Take the time to look at the Okuma. The control is lightyears ahead of the Fanuc. Yes I do have all Okumas but have worked with Fanucs and never want to go back

What are the advantages of the control on the Okuma? I have always used Fanuc and then some Haas machines. I agree that the Fanuc hardware is kind of pathetic. For instance, using a flash memory card to load programs / run large programs. Pressing all the buttons you have to press to find certain stuff is less than intuitive. Just curious in what aspects the control is superior. Ease of use, set up, actual machine cutting control features, etc. ?

Jashley73 · Dec 9, 2014

baran3 said:
What are the advantages of the control on the Okuma? I have always used Fanuc and then some Haas machines. I agree that the Fanuc hardware is kind of pathetic. For instance, using a flash memory card to load programs / run large programs. Pressing all the buttons you have to press to find certain stuff is less than intuitive. Just curious in what aspects the control is superior. Ease of use, set up, actual machine cutting control features, etc. ?

Just about everything. It has a very-nice touch screen. It is windows based, and can be wired to your network so that you can open "My Computer" on the control, and then simply copy/paste programs from the network onto the control. Or just use the USB drive, in the same Windows "My Computer" fashion. It has the programming, operation, and alarm manuals loaded onto the control - accessible anytime by pressing the ? key, just to the left of the F1 soft key. (This is especially helpful when you encoutner an alarm. You press the ? button, and it will open the alarm that is displayed, complete with description, and possible courses to fix it...) The menus are more intuitive. You get a full QWERTY keyboard, and a much better program-editor. The USER-TASK2 macro language is easier to deal with than Fanuc's Custom-Macro-B.

I'm sure there's more, these are just off the top of my head...

Also worth mentioning if they still make them, would be the Hardinge GX-1000 with Okuma's OSP control package. A Hardinge made machine, with Okuma's control/servo package. A few months ago Gosiger was running a special where you could pick up the OSP version for $75,000 starting price. They are coming out with a new model, so if you can find one of these machines still in stock, the price might be right... Member Edster on here has one of these machines. (Hey Edster, how do you like yours?)

2outof3 · Dec 9, 2014

Jashley73 said:
Also worth mentioning if they still make them, would be the Hardinge GX-1000 with Okuma's OSP control package. A Hardinge made machine, with Okuma's control/servo package. A few months ago Gosiger was running a special where you could pick up the OSP version for $75,000 starting price. They are coming out with a new model, so if you can find one of these machines still in stock, the price might be right... Member Edster on here has one of these machines. (Hey Edster, how do you like yours?)

Saying Hardinge made that machine is a bit of a stretch.

Jashley73 · Dec 9, 2014

2outof3 said:
Saying Hardinge made that machine is a bit of a stretch.

Could be said for lots of builders. How about you get decent Taiwanese Iron, with a top-notch Control, from a reputable US company with good distribution and support.

Mtndew · Dec 9, 2014

baran3 said:
What are the advantages of the control on the Okuma?

Just curious in what aspects the control is superior. Ease of use, set up, actual machine cutting control features, etc. ?

Yes, yes and yes.
Fanuc is so archaic it's unreal.
The advantages are too many to list, to be honest.
From sub programs to variables, to the best feature ever (Mid Auto Manual) to Hi-Cut Pro.. the entire machine is just so much better.

dstryr · Dec 9, 2014

Before hearing about the Okuma genos on this forum I've never seen one. Don't seem popular in the bay area.
I'd say every job shop should have atleast 1 30 taper drill/tap for small parts. You bill out what it takes everyone else with a HAAS to make the parts and profit the extra 40% cycle time.

2outof3 · Dec 9, 2014

Jashley73 said:
Could be said for lots of builders. How about you get decent Taiwanese Iron, with a top-notch Control, from a reputable US company with good distribution and support.

Actually, I think that is a good thing to understand. There are real differences when a builder actually builds their products.

2outof3 · Dec 9, 2014

dstryr said:
Before hearing about the Okuma genos on this forum I've never seen one. Don't seem popular in the bay area.
I'd say every job shop should have atleast 1 30 taper drill/tap for small parts. You bill out what it takes everyone else with a HAAS to make the parts and profit the extra 40% cycle time.

And your machines are not even the newer higher cutting capability machines.

When deciding what to buy, you have to be a bit of a futurist. What will my money spent today gain me for the life of the machine. Buying one of the new Fadals, using the same old technology is a waste of resources. It is like buying a new Pinto.

2outof3 · Dec 9, 2014

dstryr said:
Before hearing about the Okuma genos on this forum I've never seen one. Don't seem popular in the bay area.
I'd say every job shop should have atleast 1 30 taper drill/tap for small parts. You bill out what it takes everyone else with a HAAS to make the parts and profit the extra 40% cycle time.

I have a customer with a year old Genos next to two Brother S2Dn-O High Torques. The majority of his work is ferrous. Besides the occasional part that stretches the machining envelope, he hates putting parts on the Genos. It costs him money. This is a shop that has owned HMC's, multitasking lathes and robots. He is a very sharp old guy.

baran3 · Dec 9, 2014

Is anyone familiar with DMC Machine Tools? Salesmen came into my shop a couple times over the past year or so. DMC is from Korea and has been a machine tool builder since the 1940's. Salesman said they basically were the company that actually built Doosans. I noticed a DMC sticker on my Doosan's casting when I had the way covers off. Guy told me a 40" x 20" machine was around $85K with decent options. Seems interesting and great price. I guess I'll see what the Doosan salesman has to say about them.

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