Emco Lathes

Deno · Jul 16, 2004

Hi there all,
Nice to see other emco users online anyone needing help hints or tips feel free to ask. I have been and still am working with 14 of these lathes with TM01,TM02,Siemens&Fanuc controls some with barfeeds & magazine loaders on. Be nice to hear from you.

Ox · Jul 16, 2004

How are those twin bangers?

Think Snow Eh ole' chapp!
Ox

Deno · Jul 16, 2004

Hi Ox
Yeh there still going strong and producing precision parts.

wrench · Jul 16, 2004

I've been looking for a spare set of boards for my 120. Don't know why as being a hobbiest I'm not likely to ever blow one up, I suspect!

Anyhow, I've gotten my 120 running (finally) and hope to make chips with it soon.

Alan

wrench · Jul 17, 2004

Hi Doug,
Yes, I was aware that the axis controllers were interchangeable. Ironically, I think the axis drive boards *may* be relatively easy to replace with another 5-pole driver. Haven't checked to heavily into that yet.

One thing you may want to consider... EPROMs have a life of about 15 years. I'm planning on saving an image of mine. Of course, in 5 years I probably still will not have gotten to it!

Incidentally, I finally got those tapes I was looking for. Took me forever, but they actually have some useful information for the novice (if you can stay awake).

Alan

SIM · Jul 18, 2004

Speaking of Emco lathes I have a problem from time to time with the turret proximity switch on the 340 turn. I have replaced as this is what Emco recommends but never fixxes the problem.

Problem is if I index the turret around too much I get a turret failure, usually going over 270 deg. repeatedly will do this. I reset and it happens again and again. I have found if I remove the proximity switch from the turret, clean the oil from the tip and replace it will work flawless again till the next time. Sometimes days or weeks depending on its use.

I've asked Emco about the problem and the iol fix and they say it shouldn't be a problem, replace the switch.

Any thoughts? the turret is a Sauter.

spope14 · Jul 18, 2004

I have had Sauter problems, but thre is a keystroke set that tends to fix the index issues. Try pressing the 100% feed key, the turrett index key both at the same time. Tends to re-set the index. You may have to re-align the turrett, but this has happened only once in my 11 years with this machine. Some Emcos have an Aux on key, may have to really stretch and try all three at once. I can go to my shop and check this out tomorrow, but the Sauter turrett is good, and these are "unknown strokes" on the Emco lathes.

Mine is an Emcoturn 320 with a fanuc OTC Control, and i just love this machine.

SIM · Jul 19, 2004

To re-set I have to press turret turn and AUX-On at the same time.

This is not the problem though. What seems to be happening is midway thru a turret shift the turret locks up, or gets a false signal or something else not really sure but it stops rotating and alarms out. I can clear the alarm and re-set most of the time but on the next cyle it will usually happen again unless I go into the turret remove swich, clean and replace. From that time on it will usually work great for some time.

Thanks for the input.

D. Thomas · Jul 19, 2004

EPROMs have a life of about 15 years

This is the general consensus, but just curious if you or anyone here, knows *why* ? Why exactly would age matter with such things ? And is it just age, heat or the number of cycles ?

damonfg · Jul 19, 2004

Age is the predominant factor. EPROMS are only set once, and from then on it's a matter of forgetting. It you reprogram the EPROM, it will last another number of years.

Charge depletion from the internal circuitry for a number of reasons, up to and including stray radiation (solar even) that "bumps" the charge out.

wrench · Jul 19, 2004

damonfg is absolutely right... Think of it as a little capacitor that keeps the bit set (maybe '0'... can't remember... hmmm, think it is actually '0' now that I think of it). Over time this charge is lost and then you loose the value.

Of course, if you reprogram the chip, you might as well save the HEX image while you're at it... That way you can always reburn a new chip if needed. The EPROM used in the control, if memory serves me correctly, is just a 27C256. That is very common. Sadly, my hardware design days have been in remission for awhile (prefer it over software, but the jobs are frequently lower paying and with a higher churn), and my programmer uses an ISA bus. Few computers have that now-a-days. I should really buy one of the parallel port programmers so that I'm covered when the next whiz-bang technology changes the bus architecture again.

Alan

damonfg · Jul 19, 2004

Wrench, you can still find ISA motherboards through a number of suppliers but not all of the mainstream build-your-own-pc places.

It's definitely possible to read an EPROM then write it all back to the same EPROM. (This is vy similar to how RAM works, just keeps getting 'recharged'.) This will buy you years if the EPROM is ok to begin with. But the 27Cxxx chips are cheap enough to burn them by the handfull and store some extras in a lead bag in the freezer

wrench · Jul 19, 2004

damonfg... Yes, I know you can still get ISA boards, but I don't want another computer cluttering my area. I'd rather buy a new programmer that runs on USB (or other universal type interface). I just need to get around to doing it (think I'll check eBay right now!).

As for writing to previously written EPROM. You are certainly correct. So long as you don't change the data (which you obviously would not), you'll be safe. The one caveat is the software. If it checks to see if the EPROM is erased prior to programming, then that will obviously be an issue. But as you point out, 27xxx chips are a dime a dozen; there is really no reason to fret about this stuff... just buy a new one if your programmer won't write to the chip!

--Alan

Deno · Jul 21, 2004

Hi all
The axis boards for the 120s can be repaired very cheaply as it is usually the transistors that blow or the screw in fuses that go. so if you know an electronics repair outlet they should be able to do it for yous. As for the sauter turrets they are different types for 320 as for the 342 cos we ave them at our company, usually it is the angular encoder that is the problem with them if you have renewed the proximity switches, it will need turning left or right slighty to adjust they are very sensitive so only rotate a small amount at a time ok, hope this helps you.

Deno · Jul 21, 2004

Hi Sim & Wrench
i got those sauter turrets on mine, sometimes the angular encoder needs to be adjusted on the back only move it a small amount at a time tho they are very sensitive,if that dont work change the solenoid cos we had one that was slow re-acting and that alarmed turret failure. The step motor axis boards can be fixed cheaply cos normally its the transistors on the side that go(the ones screwed to the alloy heat sink)if not them check the screw in fuses.
Hope that helps.
Dean

SIM · Jul 21, 2004

I have adjusted the switch. I don't think thats the problem. Can you be more specific as the the solonoid. Where about on the turret do I find this. Seems to fit the problem symtoms.
Thanks.

wrench · Jul 21, 2004

Naive question here, but how do you know what type of turret you have? I have always assumed that it was just an Emco turret!

Alan

SIM · Jul 22, 2004

I can answer this one.

The name on the tag is "Sauter".

I can go around the machine and pull up a ton of other tags, drives, motors, switches, hydraulics, bearings, CPU etc.

wrench · Jul 22, 2004

Guess I have something else then... I've never seen a tag on my turret at all.

Say, this reminds me... Reliable Tool has a 320 they are selling right now on eBay. It has a round toolchanger disc (mine has semi-circles "cut" out of the round). The 320 shown uses a toolholder than has two bolts that go diagonally into the disc. These cinch the holder down and back. That seems much better than my disc's facing tool mounting slots. Basically you 'wedge' a tool in there with a jam (or is it jamb) nut.

What type of holder does the 320 I'm talking about use? I understand that Emco sold a few 120's with that holder as well. I've seen one in pictures once... all the others have had my type of disc.

Alan

Geoff · Jul 22, 2004

I have a EMCO M1 CNC mill that I am going to retrofit so I no longer have any use for the control, stepper motors and drives. The control is in perfect working order and so is one of the axis drives. If anybody out there is interested in making me an offer on all this gear just let me know otherwise I am going to put it on ebay. The other 2 drives have disappeard and I have tried to get some more but no luck so far. I just need to get the machine up and running now so A retrofit is the best way out for me now. By the way, the axis drives are the same ones that are in the lathes.

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