Considering Kitamura

I like the speeds and feeds on that thing, especially considering the price on them. But I have been reading that those Kittys are like a Ferrari, they run fast and empty your wallet fast when you need repairs. So my question is this, is there a repair insurance policy that I can put on a Kitamura Mycenter or any other CNC for that matter? Also, can anybody chime in with the repairs that they have been needing to make on their Kitamura's in the last 4 years or so? I also see that these come in either Yasnac or Fanuc, should I walk away from a quality made machine cause it has a YASNAC controller even though it sounds good and runs good? I really don't know enough of a difference between the two controllers. I've been manual the last 10 years and the last two years have learned how to program in G code. That is about it.

They do seem to be the fastest on boxways, but when I see them come up used and sometimes really not that old, they often ask less $ than other brands for some reason and I'd figure they are fairly up there in price new eh?. I tried to find out more on that before but couldn't even find a Kitamura dealer in Canada so I gave up.

I'm not sure there's much novelty to boxways anymore considering how good and solid new roller ways are when sized properly by the builders that don't cheap it out. Easier to repair/replace than boxways too.

madmachinst said:

I like the speeds and feeds on that thing, especially considering the price on them. But I have been reading that those Kittys are like a Ferrari, they run fast and empty your wallet fast when you need repairs. So my question is this, is there a repair insurance policy that I can put on a Kitamura Mycenter or any other CNC for that matter? Also, can anybody chime in with the repairs that they have been needing to make on their Kitamura's in the last 4 years or so? I also see that these come in either Yasnac or Fanuc, should I walk away from a quality made machine cause it has a YASNAC controller even though it sounds good and runs good? I really don't know enough of a difference between the two controllers. I've been manual the last 10 years and the last two years have learned how to program in G code. That is about it.

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I am not sure if you can get repair insurance on those particular machines however I am not sure so someone else would need to chime in on that one however our shop just got a new Kitty roughly 3-4 weeks ago and I believe its a 2006 model (don't quote me on that) however our mechanic/engineer has been working on that thing everyday now for the past 3 weeks and today I seen him run parts on it for the first time and all he was doing was face milling some steel blocks. He finally now has that beast up and running its a very nice horizontal machine.

DO NOT buy one with a Yasnac controller, end of story.

I think most of the parts you will need for a Fanuc Kitamura will come from Fanuc. There are some mechanical parts the you might need to buy from Kitty, but not that many. If you need a spindle repair, way covers or ball screws - you can get those from many quality rebuilders. I think Kitty's are good machines.

I have a beat up 1995 kitamura mycenter 3 APC. I love it. I bought it cheap and next to death, but it's some great iron. Most of the issues I have had with the machine come from old plastic hoses that crack, bad way covers, stuff like that. It must have 15k hours on it and no one took care of it until I bought it. Still holds size thou, just took 2 weeks of my time to get it up to snuff.

I would buy another in a heart beat. Ya, the manuals suck, but mine has a Fanuc control and it's easy enough to trouble shoot and repair.

Just check the ways out for wear, listen to the spindle, u know, check it out good. Kitamura is a good machine, but be careful it wasn't abused. Pricey to repair? Depends on what u compare it to and what breaks.

Dualkit said:

DO NOT buy one with a Yasnac controller, end of story.

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I'm guessing the Yasnac thing goes for any machine brand that has that control on it ?
Many used mastuuras come with yasnac controls as well.

Yasnac MX1-MX3 controls are a bit cumbersome, i80 and newer are great. I really don't have a problem with them, all the manuals are available online, even parameter manuals. I'd take a Yasnac over Fanuc any day of the week for that reason alone. Its nice to know when I am working on a Yasnac machine and I need to adjust a parameter, find a optional G or M code, etc. I can just hop online and download the manuals in .pdf for any of their controllers. I can see Yasnac being a problem on some MTB's machines where they get configured funny, but really anything Yaskawa is good quality.

Yasnac might be a problem if you don't do your own repair, and you don't have any repair techs in the area that know yasnacs/ or are savy enough to download the manuals online. Or some MTB's machines where they get configured funny, but really anything Yaskawa is good quality.

We have two Kit mills at work and they're great machines except for the retarded Fanuc control.

Our's have only needed minor repairs, although we have preventive maintenance done every year and a guy goes through the machine thoroughly.

Compared to a Mori or some of the other high end guys, the fit and finish isn't all that great.

I'd personally never buy one because the Fanuc control slows me down.

OK, besides teh fact that I really don't understand this FANUC vs YASNAC stuff even if my life depended on it, my other question is what kind of tolerances can your Kitty's hold? Please include age of machine if possible.

I swapped out a 2007 Integrex that I bought new, and always had issues with it. I could fix most anything, but when help was needed from Mazak I was screwed... so I got rid of it.

In it's place I stuck a 2002 Kitamura HX400i horizontal. It came from a shop that obviously never bothered to clean anything. It was filthy, packed full of chips, spit coolant everywhere, parts were falling off, etc. But the ways were well lubed and in great shape even with 14,000 hours on the machine. Ball screws and mechanical parts were in fine shape.

I spent a couple months cleaning it, and getting the tool magazine to work properly. It had been wrecked in the past, and whoever tried to fix it didn't have a clue. A new drive amp, tool probe, and renishaw probe and lots of TLC and it's up and running. Worked flawlessly ever since.

I can't say that the Fanuc control is my favorite, but it's works very well, and is superb with a few macros. Who ever figured they could save a couple bucks and skip a full keyboard though should be shot.

Kitamura service is absolutely the best I've ever seen, or spoken to. They are prompt, knowledgeable and very willing to help. Gail Hogue at Hogue machinery is our local rep even though she is a couple states away. All I can say is she's a super lady. She shipped most parts without asking for a dime up front, and even stopped by the shop with the Kitamura VP when she was in the area to see if we needed any help. No other machine dealers have even bothered once the machines were paid for...

All this and from a company that I never bought a machine from... I'd buy another in a heartbeat.

Don't sweat the parts prices cost. They are no more than anyone else, and most issues are going to be Fanuc related, and there are far cheaper sources of repair available. I do think though that Hogue Machine got me the best price on my drive amp though. I compared several other sources and they were cheaper than most.

Don't even worry about it, it's a non-issue. They are close enough to be the same, I've run the Yasnac MX 1 and Fanuc 6M, I thought they were pretty similar. Every machine no matter what you get will have a learning curve, lot of Fanucs out there and they're not to bad to learn but I will say, I have a real Fanuc manual for my lathe and it is quite a mind blower. Once I figured out the whys and wherefores it no big deal anymore.
I knew a guy that had a Kitty, he was looking and finally bought it, he absolutely loved that machine, he bought another one a couple months later. It was accurate and fast and his had the BT35 taper tooling???? No big deal really.

Dave

madmachinst said:

OK, besides teh fact that I really don't understand this FANUC vs YASNAC stuff even if my life depended on it, my other question is what kind of tolerances can your Kitty's hold? Please include age of machine if possible.

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Have 2, 10 Year old Kitamura HX250's with yasnac i80 controls and these things are dead accurate and fast.
At least as fast as a machine with a 12 inch work cube can be .
Great for small work. Most repairs have been of the worn out seals, dried out whatever variety. One down now with a power supply, servo motor issue but what the hell, it's over 10 years old.
I've spent 25 years with yasnac controls on matsuura's and mori's so I'm gonna favor them but the fanucs I have to deal with are just a control, Once you learn it, a non issue

The worst opinion I have gotten from someone about a Yasnac is spindle drive and control panels burning out too much.

Kitamura/Yasnac

I think the quality of the Kitamura machines is hard to beat - we had a lathe that we pounded on for years, and the only problem we ever had was the turret encoder, otherwise absolutely trouble free.

I've still got a 16 yr. old machine with Yasnac control that has been bullet proof. One monitor in the last year, and one or maybe 2 servo boards in that time. Features that I haven't found on a new Fanuc 18i for a lot less money. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a machine w/Yasnac, and can't understand why they aren't more popular.

ray

I got 1986Matsuura,VMC,Yasnac controls,still works just fine,I think shes a MX2.

I am starting 2 get along with her better,maybe 2 months we been together.
Gw

Dave Cross said:

Yasnac MX1-MX3 controls are a bit cumbersome, i80 and newer are great. I really don't have a problem with them, all the manuals are available online, even parameter manuals.

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agreed 1,000,000%. you take that and the fate that I feel (and have experienced) that the yasnac encoder/servo package is more accurate than fanuc's...I would NEVER hesitate to get a yasnac controller on a quality machine tool. (provided that its a i-80....j300, ect)

We had a h400ix with a 5th axis on it and that thing was bad ass (besides the control). Held tenths everyday all day. only problems was someone tried to rapid a holder trough a toomstone, (did in the spindle), and the tool changer had to be slowed down as when set on kill it would trow the tools. But running parts that thing was a beast. We could generate over 800 pound of aluminum chips on that machine a day. Would consistantly beat the FPT which was a 50taper by 200-300 lbs.