Face Grooving 316 Stainless Question

I

Italiano83

Aluminum

Joined

Mar 4, 2013

Location

Miami, FL

• Aug 29, 2016

• #1

I'm trying to face groove 316 Stainless. Not too deep, only .040" but the width of the tool/groove is only .035/.039". Diameter of groove is about .900". I'm continuously breaking tools. I've been using carbide tooling, flood coolant. I started at 220SFM and .0016"/rev. Then went down to 140 SFM and .0008"/rev. Can't seem to get the darn thing to cut without breaking. Any advice?

Thank you,

-Jon

 

O

obars

Plastic

Joined

Nov 11, 2014

Location

OHIO

• Aug 29, 2016

• #2

post a pic of your face groove tool

 

I

Italiano83

Aluminum

Joined

Mar 4, 2013

Location

Miami, FL

• Aug 29, 2016

• #3

Here you go

 

O

obars

Plastic

Joined

Nov 11, 2014

Location

OHIO

• Aug 29, 2016

• #4

I use this same tool all the time in alum and SS, mine are .030 wide.
1st - verify spindle direction.
2nd - plunge in about .038/.0395 deep at the major or minor of the face groove, pull out, step over 50% to 75% of the tool with, plunge, repeat.
3rd - take a finish pass of about .0005/.002 deep - start at the minor (or major) feed to depth, feed in X to the center of the groove, pull out, start at the opposite side (major/minor), feed to depth, feed in x to blend.

140 SF & .0008/rev sounds about right

 

I

Italiano83

Aluminum

Joined

Mar 4, 2013

Location

Miami, FL

• Aug 29, 2016

• #5

obars said:

I use this same tool all the time in alum and SS, mine are .030 wide.
1st - verify spindle direction.
2nd - plunge in about .038/.0395 deep at the major or minor of the face groove, pull out, step over 50% to 75% of the tool with, plunge, repeat.
3rd - take a finish pass of about .0005/.002 deep - start at the minor (or major) feed to depth, feed in X to the center of the groove, pull out, start at the opposite side (major/minor), feed to depth, feed in x to blend.

140 SF & .0008/rev sounds about right

Click to expand...

Thank you. I have some new tools and some inserts for other style tools coming in tomorrow. I will attempt and report my findings.

 

I

Italiano83

Aluminum

Joined

Mar 4, 2013

Location

Miami, FL

• Aug 31, 2016

• #6

Still no dice. Keep breaking Inserts. A sketch of my insert orientation with respect to the face groove is attached. Spindle direction CCW. .0008"/rev at 140 SFM. Coolant flood. Insert made to go to .060" max depth. Keep breaking around .025" or so.

 

Ox

Diamond

Joined

Aug 27, 2002

Location

Northwest Ohio

• Aug 31, 2016

• #7

Define "CCW" *

Are you in M4?





Sure hope this has nothing to doo with old skewl 2 stroke motors!


------------------------------

I am Ox and I approve this h'yah post!

 

Philabuster

Diamond

Joined

Jul 12, 2006

Location

Tempe, AZ

• Aug 31, 2016

• #8

Italiano83 said:

Still no dice. Keep breaking Inserts.

Click to expand...

Spin it faster and feed it slower.

 

I

Italiano83

Aluminum

Joined

Mar 4, 2013

Location

Miami, FL

• Aug 31, 2016

• #9

Philabuster said:

Spin it faster and feed it slower.

Click to expand...

Still breaking. Not quite sure what the problem is

 

apoc_101

Hot Rolled

Joined

May 11, 2011

Location

Canada

• Aug 31, 2016

• #10

double the concentration of your coolant and see if that helps... also ensure the tool is as rigid as possible, and not moving in the toolholding.

you could also try upside down orientation to aid in chip ejection and coolant entry to the cutting zone...

 

A

adama

Diamond

Joined

Dec 28, 2004

Location

uk

• Aug 31, 2016

• #11

Second coolant concentration. Are you facing this part with a sharp tool? A hard surface or a cold worked piece of 316 like a bolt heads a whole other ball game.

 

I

Italiano83

Aluminum

Joined

Mar 4, 2013

Location

Miami, FL

• Sep 1, 2016

• #12

adama said:

Second coolant concentration. Are you facing this part with a sharp tool? A hard surface or a cold worked piece of 316 like a bolt heads a whole other ball game.

Click to expand...

Let me check the coolant concentration and feedback, but yes, the operation directly before the groove is a face off. Surface is smooth as a baby's ass.

 

S

SND

Diamond

Joined

Jan 12, 2003

Location

Canada

• Sep 1, 2016

• #13

Coolant not making it to the tool? chips wrapping up on it? something loose or vibrating? something's breaking it...
And yeah, rich enough coolant sure helps but its just 316, though could be a really bad batch of it, it happens.

Maybe try around .0004" feed and peck every .005 or so and make sure the chips get cleared before it goes back in.
I tend to think the problem probably ain't feed or sfm though...

 

N

Nami

Hot Rolled

Joined

Sep 19, 2007

Location

Northern VA

• Sep 1, 2016

• #14

At this point, how about trying it in aluminum or plastic to see if there isn't something that's not material specific going on?

 

H

HuFlungDung

Diamond

Joined

Jan 19, 2005

Location

Canada

• Sep 1, 2016

• #15

Does that tool have a significant positive top rake?

I'd be inclined to sharpen up a piece of HSS with about 15 degrees top rake angle. It's improved toughness will probably outlast the fragile carbide in that situation, even if you do have to slow down to 50 sfm, and the coolant won't cause heat fractures.

I find trepanning mild steel is pretty taxing on the tools, there always seems to be a point where a chip jam-up occurs. I'd recommend a pecking cycle to help avoid this.

 

charlie gary

Stainless

Joined

Oct 4, 2009

Location

near Seattle, Washington, USA

• Sep 1, 2016

• #16

How far out does the tool hang from the holder? If it's acting like a diving board, it won't last long.

I've had really good luck with these.
ISCAR Cutting Tools - Metal Working Tools - MIFHR

 

Last edited: Sep 1, 2016

E

EM112358

Aluminum

Joined

Sep 18, 2014

Location

Midwest, USA

• Sep 1, 2016

• #17

Agree with charlie gary about the Iscar groover. They work good. BUT your groover should work too. Have you checked to see if you're on center with the tool/holder? This has to be more of a setup issue, with the little knowledge of the situation that we have. As others have stated, stick-out distance (think length to diameter ratio), can greatly affect vibration, which if you have any vibration (chatter) you won't get away with it on this small of a tool.

E

 

L

Lucky 13

Aluminum

Joined

Apr 2, 2011

Location

Grass Pants, Orygun

• Sep 1, 2016

• #18

I do this quite a bit in 316. .045" to .060" wide .375 and .500 diameter. I G83 with a .010" peck at 600rpm and a .0005 feed per rev and then finish at .001 per rev and it is usually with a face groove tool I have off hand ground from a broken boring bar.

 

I

Italiano83

Aluminum

Joined

Mar 4, 2013

Location

Miami, FL

• Sep 7, 2016

• #19

I did figure out the face grooving issue. The insert geometry the way its made has zero relief on the bottom edge, so it theoretically drags and if a chip snags it, its done. I had to put a 5 to 10 degree angle on it and now it cuts like butter. 120 SFM and .0005"/rev

 

D

dpolseno41

Aluminum

Joined

Oct 4, 2013

Location

Sutton, MA

• Sep 7, 2016

• #20

Italiano83 said:

I did figure out the face grooving issue. The insert geometry the way its made has zero relief on the bottom edge, so it theoretically drags and if a chip snags it, its done. I had to put a 5 to 10 degree angle on it and now it cuts like butter. 120 SFM and .0005"/rev

Click to expand...

Beat me to it! I was going to say I bet it's the bar geometry getting snagged up. Been there and learned that lesson. Face grooving bars often need extra relief to run correctly in my experience.