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OT: A rival company takes my job... and what happens after

Boris

Titanium
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Location
England
Hi all

Not quite sure which section this belongs in , but here will do

I work for a sub-contractor and we manufacture exhaust valve covers and distributers for a nameless big company.

However , they've decided to switch designs from a mix of machined from solid 4360 parts and cast parts to all machined from 4360.
Now with 100's of parts on my list, our VMCs could'nt cope with the resulting workload.

So customer decides to send 25 off to a rival sub-contractor because we've got so much work on and we charge an arm and a leg for the parts etc etc etc, usual BS a buyer will give us.

So last Tuesday, the tool rep we use calls up and asks "what feeds/speeds do you use to make the parts?" because he's sold the exact same tooling we buy for the job to our rivals.
Oh dear.... hes having trouble achieving the finish and I'm trying not to laugh:)

Come Thursday morning, the tooling rep comes in and starts telling us whats happened... hes getting calls from the rival saying its impossible to use the tools and they're all crap and theres no way he can make the parts in the time allowed ( takes us 47 mins machining time total)

Then friday the buyer comes in looking a bit sheepish and says "Can you make 250 more"
Turns out their QA department had the rival's parts in friday morning and rejected the lot for having a bad finish, amongst others faults.

Its so nice to be able to point at a job and say "I'm the only one who can make that" :smoking:

Boris

"I'll ask the boss for a raise Monday" :D
 
Happened in Mexico, Taiwan, now China and whats next? Don't lie back on your laurels. If the guy wants the business and who wouldn't he will figure it out and probably improve it. The you might on the outside looking in.
Tom
 
Only having technological advantage (in simple words experience and know how) will shield you from competitors who give cheaper prices or more spindle time. Good for you and your company, Boris.
 
Thumbs up!

Only having technological advantage (in simple words experience and know how) will shield you from competitors who give cheaper prices or more spindle time. Good for you and your company, Boris.

I agree with Probe, but don't let your guard down, keep evaluating your processes and how to improve on them! The competition is still out there in the shadows.:fight:

It maybe its time to have a conversation with your customer and see just what drove him to seek out another source. Was it cost, delivery, or quality issues on continuous bases or just a onetime rush thing?

Approach it from a "we want to work with you here” bases with them. If was a price issue thing, then maybe they need to order larger lots so that you can give them a price break. If the lot sizes are already such that you’re unable to keep up, maybe another machine or improvement on tooling or fixturing is in order.

Steve:codger:
 
Seems a little unprofessional of your tool rep to so freely give out your hard earned experience by telling your rival exactly what tools you used on the job.

Maybe now is a good time to begin a campaign of disinformation. Start by buying a few inexpensive tools that are entirely unsuited to the jobs you do. Then rave to your tool rep about how well they work.

Your rival will be in for a doozie the next time they get your job and tool list.:hitsthefan:

QB
 
I think it may be time to find a new tool supplier. I would be really pissed if a supplier told my competition what I was doing. I do work for about 20 different racing teams and am careful not to transfer any information between them. If word got out that I was talking I would have no work.
 
I agree with Probe, but don't let your guard down, keep evaluating your processes and how to improve on them! The competition is still out there in the shadows.:fight:

^This. If you're doing it on a Taiwan VMC, there are plenty of people out there who can do the same thing. Your customer just happened to find the one that couldn't. ;)
 
I agree with Probe, but don't let your guard down, keep evaluating your processes and how to improve on them! The competition is still out there in the shadows.:fight:

It maybe its time to have a conversation with your customer and see just what drove him to seek out another source. Was it cost, delivery, or quality issues on continuous bases or just a onetime rush thing?

Approach it from a "we want to work with you here” bases with them. If was a price issue thing, then maybe they need to order larger lots so that you can give them a price break. If the lot sizes are already such that you’re unable to keep up, maybe another machine or improvement on tooling or fixturing is in order.

Steve:codger:


I agree, now is the time to step forward and shine, really make the customer appreciate you. Dont give them time to let the other shop catch up, make whatever improvements you can afford to do to keep as much of the production in your hands.

I wish I had that kind of problem... :) I wouldnt be asking for a raise, I would be asking for some more quick change fixture plates and more preset tooling.

But that is just me, it is different when you are an owner and an employee.

Charles
 
I think it may be time to find a new tool supplier. I would be really pissed if a supplier told my competition what I was doing. I do work for about 20 different racing teams and am careful not to transfer any information between them. If word got out that I was talking I would have no work.

Agreed, our corporate lawyers would be all over that dude because of the NDA/CA he had to sign to get in the door of our place to begin with.......and he wouldn't be back in the door again, period.
 
I think it may be time to find a new tool supplier. I would be really pissed if a supplier told my competition what I was doing. I do work for about 20 different racing teams and am careful not to transfer any information between them. If word got out that I was talking I would have no work.

Too true, that tool rep be out of my place like a rocket, and I'd tell his company the reason.

IMO that's totally wrong and completely unethical behaviour and should be jumped on fast and hard.
 
Too true, that tool rep be out of my place like a rocket, and I'd tell his company the reason.

IMO that's totally wrong and completely unethical behaviour and should be jumped on fast and hard.


I must admit when I got the call I did'nt like it

However telling him that I use book feeds and speeds for the various insert mills, carbide endmills and t/c carbide drills used on the job just saved him having to look up the information (its all in the Walter and Arno cutters books anyway)
What I'll never tell is the various depths of cuts , width of cuts, or the customised pocket profiles I use ... no CAM for me and the 530i pocketing cycles do not work either.
Thats the bitter experience that I went through trying to get the job done and to a high quality finish in the first place.

Boris

Next week: a part done by other companies in 30 mins.... so I'm doing it in 20.... not because I can, but because I cannot be bothered to work overtime :D
 
Too true, that tool rep be out of my place like a rocket, and I'd tell his company the reason.

IMO that's totally wrong and completely unethical behaviour and should be jumped on fast and hard.


+1! Absolutely correct. And I'd be selling all that supplier's tools on Ebay tomorrow and buying from HIS competitor. "How's it feel, asshole?"
 
I'd still bounce him out Boris,........ lifes hard enough without untrustworthy gobshite reps making it harder.

IMO - If you don't you'll rue the day.
 
Seems a little unprofessional of your tool rep to so freely give out your hard earned experience by telling your rival exactly what tools you used on the job.QB

You're right, that's extremely unprofessional! And shouldn't the tooling rep be the one giving out the technical info to his customers, not asking them? That's not a rep I would do business with, I would find a new tooling guy ASAP!

Glad to hear you won one Boris, feels good to have workmanship and someone appreciate it! :cheers:
 
As far as a rep goes, it is his job to offer the best tool for a specific job to whom ever his customer is. He cant go around playing favorites and holding back on one shop over another. That he asked you if you would share your numbers is appropriate, if you decline then he should just offer the other company the book values and let it go at that.

Now if he is volunteering information that he got from you without your consent to share then that is a problem.

I can only assume that if there is a serious conflict of interest the correct action would be for him to let another sales man go to the other company. At least that would help keep an NDA intact.

No need to go bouncing anyone, that never really works out in a positives way. But of course it does make you feel better... :)

Still this isnt a bad thing, this is an opportunity. Good luck Boris, I see lots of overtime in your future.

Charles
 
competition

competition is the way of the world. i work for a large company with sites in different parts of the world.
.
in 2005 my old department of 500 people was laid off because our machines were the oldest and slowest. the company had more machines than product demand and chose the least efficient to shut down.
.
in 2006 after applying for a new job i was one of 100 people chosen to work on totally different machines making a new product. it took our site over a year to match the Colorado site that has been running for 10 years.
.
since we all work for the same company we are required to share procedures and technology. by 2007 we were doing better than the Colorado site. in 2008 they start sending people to our site to learn how and why we were doing better. by 2010 both sites were again running even. by 2011 we are doing slightly better and faster production.
.
point is even when in the same company different sites try different things. we are forced to share information even if that may one day come back to shut us down. only thing we can do is continuously improve faster, cheaper, better quality. it is like being in a race and being ahead but knowing your competition is on your heels and if you stop going faster you get left behind.
........ when ever i feel i should not try so hard i remember my other 400 fellow workers who were never hired back to work in my company.
 
As far as a rep goes, it is his job to offer the best tool for a specific job to whom ever his customer is. He cant go around playing favorites and holding back on one shop over another. That he asked you if you would share your numbers is appropriate, if you decline then he should just offer the other company the book values and let it go at that.

Now if he is volunteering information that he got from you without your consent to share then that is a problem.

I can only assume that if there is a serious conflict of interest the correct action would be for him to let another sales man go to the other company. At least that would help keep an NDA intact.

No need to go bouncing anyone, that never really works out in a positives way. But of course it does make you feel better... :)

Still this isnt a bad thing, this is an opportunity. Good luck Boris, I see lots of overtime in your future.

Charles


I'm with Chuckie on this one.

(Just you and me Chuck ;) )


The salesman is s'posed to come in and recommend certain tools for certain apps based on what his company is telling him at first, and then adding personal experience in as well.

When he comes to your shop - you expect him to give you what he thinks is best for the job, not what he thinks is second best.

Now - I kant believe that he called to inquire about a known job tho. On the other hand - he may be under the impression that they are only running it for a short time while you ramp up to the new demand. (Ford/Jeep WWII)

I'm guessing that the reason that he called was that he knows this tool will fit this app fine, but was not getting the expected results on his own. Kind of a :o moment for him.


-------------------------

Just you and me Chuck
Ox
 
Boris,

I certainly agree with many of the comments about your tool supplier's inappropriate, unprofessional and unethical conduct. If he hasn't signed an NDA as Tony mentioned, maybe it's time for your boss to draft one up for him (if you/your boss don't decide to terminate your relationship with him).

On a different note...

Boris said:
Now with 100's of parts on my list, our VMCs couldn't cope with the resulting workload.
Have you spoken with your boss about a plan to accomodate the new workload? If I'm understanding your statement properly, you're in the uncomfortable situation where you might need to risk adding capacity or risk the customer trying to find another sub-contractor (again!). One of my good friends was once told by his boss the proverbial curse of the contract job shop is that it seems you're either forced to keep growing or you risk going out of business. Good luck ramping up production to deal with the additional influx of work!

Mike
 








 
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