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Opinions on Haas/Victor/Hardinge HPCL type CNC toolroom lathes please?

swarf_rat

Titanium
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Location
Napa, CA
Curious what are the hidden limitations of this kind of design. I have been looking for a CNC/manual teach type of lathe for a while, that doesn't take up too much floor space and isn't overly complicated to maintain. These are basically CNC'd Hardinge HLV type machines. Anybody have good or bad opinions of them?

I have a larger manual engine lathe, so I don't need it to take 15" parts. One thing that kind of jumps out is they seem to all have a 5C collet spindle, with a 4 deg taper outside that allows you to mount some kind of ordinary chuck. Is this a robust arrangement or best used within the capabilities of 5C - meaning small stuff.
 
Guess no one has used or heard of these things? Someone must at least have used the same spindle arrangement on a manual version?
 
I've run the manual versions. These kinds of spindles are great for 5C collet and pot chuck work. For jaw chucks, they are typically used with 5" chucks, so relatively small parts. If you are turning a 4" diameter part, it will be a short ring or something similar. Those lathes don't have back-gears, and they don't have a lot of horsepower, so it's unlikely you'd have problems with the taper mount hammering itself too tight or coming loose (unless you engage the lock pin the wrong direction). I wouldn't try to turn a 5" diameter, 15" long slug except in a dire pinch.
 
There is a member (Madlab??) here who uses a HAAS HPCL. Last I remember he seemed pleased with it.

I have the manual version, cyclematic 618evs. Also used a real HLV-H, and various versions of it over the past 5-6 years. It certainly is made mostly for 5C work, but a 5" or 6" 3-4 jaw fits ok, but eats some Z length. Has 3Hp, and should stall before the pin holding the chuck lets go(tried that by accident, nearly ripped my dro cable off in the process). Not sure about the 5hp version. Its not a machine meant for heavy cuts, but within its capabilities it can do very nice small work and hold a tenth or 2.

I have looked into buying the cnc version of it, like the 606 but the x travel isn't much on them for gang-tools. So I'm now more interested in this Lagun. Price is actually less than a hardinge copy with cnc controls, and its enclosed. But I'm not sure how the accuracy of either one would compare.

http://www.lagun.com/products/gt-32/gt-32.html


As to 1 limitation of the Hardinge design. Its tailstock is very poor, aka mad chatter because of the long overhang of the quill in order to manage to turn anything between centers. There are ways to limit it some, but its still a pain.
 
These are small lathes…5c collet size work. You can add a chuck but there’s not going to be a lot of horses available. Also by the time you add the necessary tooling you probably could have an enclosed machine with a turret for lots of tools. You mention “teach”, is this to learn CNC? The first lesson learned will be the lack of an enclosure and a tool changer. There’s absolutely no reason anyone contemplating learning CNC should buy a “teach” lathe or “teach” CNC knee mill. Having said that these machines do have their place in my shop and that’s doing second op work. My 3xais Bridgeport ties up a lot of loose ends that remain from my VMC’s.
Carl
 
I agree with cheenist, Having a CNC lathe without a tool changet is about as handy as tit's on a bull. Quick change tool post will never be able to hold tenths. I recently bought a Haas TM-1 without an inclosure and I go home every night with wet socks and shirt (maybe I should invest in a rain coat). Im sure a TL would be much worse. By the time you buy the options, Tail stock (a manual one at that), tool turret, coolant pump, inclosure Manual chuck or collet closer, ECT. you could buy a nice Turning center for less money and have more power to boot. Most tool room CNC's Iv'e seen have 7.5 hp or less. And you loose alot before you ever get to the spindle. I dont know how hard you push a machine but I need at least 20hp on a 6" chuck machine.
 
Thanks for the replies, guys.

I don't think of the teach function as being useful, but the size and complexity of machine I am looking at are all in that class. There are enclosed versions of this machine. Point taken about the tool changer, but I continue to live without one on my Deckels and when practically everything you do is a prototype it isn't as big a drawback. I am mainly looking for a higher precision small lathe with the ability to do more complex shapes than can be done on a manual in a reasonable time, and automatic threading would certainly be nice. Bigger stuff I can always chuck in the Whacheon 17 x 40.
 








 
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