Renting machine time?

micro · Sep 17, 2007

I have been approached to do a job that I don’t have time to do before the deadline. The guy who approached me is an old friend and machinist himself who just doesn’t have a machine big enough to do this job. My machine is open and I can rent it to him for either a daily rate or a percentage of the job. His stock, his tools, my machine, my tool holders. He would do the programming I would do the setup. The job is for around 100 pieces that take 10 to 15min each to run. I’ve never had an arrangement like this. Have any of you been on either side of this equation?

Roughly what is it worth? This machine is just a 3 axis VMC and not all that special, and these are more or less 1 op pieces. They are shipped as they come out of the machine. no additional finishing on our side.

fmari --MariTool- · Sep 17, 2007

If I was renting a machine and I was charged my how many hours I used it, I would run the hell out of the machine. Do you want that?
What is a tool breaks or crashes?
What is a spindle amplifier happens to break while he is using it? Do you blame him or not?

In my opinion you might be asking for trouble. This deal may go smooth and everyone is happy. Or this may leave a bitter taste in your mouth if something unexpected happens.

howitt · Sep 17, 2007

That sounds like bad news all the way. had my wifes uncle borrow a toyota forklift in running condition and I go out to pick it up, it wont start and wont even move, had to have a flat bed winch it up & drag it on to the bed. He tells me no idea what happenned to it. After a New gasket kit for the intake manifold, brake adjustment, unlock the differential, carb adjustment and a new battery it runs again. The only people who respect tools are the ones who purchased them.

Find time to Run the Parts or Send him somewhere else to have them done.

mjk · Sep 17, 2007

This topic comes up in differant scenarios often.
I would charge what you would charge to do the job minus what you actually pay any an employee to sit there and load the parts.
Of course is your insurance co going to pay for him getting injured..? Who pays for the machine damage if..?
Not good business to bring a "non-employee" into your shop to work regardless of the relationship.
The only work I do for a good friend will be after the daily production is out of the way.
If you still want to help him out do it on your off hours time

micro · Sep 17, 2007

Well I’ll be setting it up, all he will be doing is swapping stock and pushing play. I’ll be dialing in all the tools and dry running the program before he ever touches the machine. This part is absolutely brain dead simple and the speeds are dictated by keeping the material from warping so cranking up the feed will only ruin parts. As far as parts going south the machine is still under warrantee so if something lets the smoke out it will be covered. And there shouldn’t be any crashes if I take care of the setup properly.

Mud · Sep 17, 2007

If i was doing it, I'd charge my normal hourly rate minus the operator's rate, and not figure cutting tools into it. For example $60-$24=$36. And charge your full rate for your time setting up etc.

PBMW · Sep 17, 2007

In that case, I'd charge him about 75% or 80% of your hourly rate for the number of hours used.

Gary E · Sep 17, 2007

The job is for around 100 pieces that take 10 to 15min each to run.

This is a 25 hour job...
If you let him run it, wether you reduce the rate or not, he will know your actual rates..BAD IDEA...
Because from then on, he will want a heavy discount...

FIND 25 hours... or hire a part timer to push buttons.

smallshop · Sep 17, 2007

I used to do that for a friend of mine. he is very cautious and careful and neat. If I had to be involved it was full rate. If he did everything I charged him 50%. He always left my machine cleaner than he found it. That is the only type of person I'd do that for.

It is difficult for a person to make money when he's renting machines but it gains/keeps him a customer.

SIM · Sep 18, 2007

Not sure if I would rent out the machine. Leaves an opening to come back and do it again.

For 25 hours I would allow a good friend to run it with the understanding if he breaks it, he replaces it. Then again a good friend would treat your stuff better then you ever would and would not consider having you fix something he broke. Anyway, I would probly not charge him for a one time run. However I would tell him what the cost should be so he has the information next time the job or situation comes up again.

One free-bee, then its business. I do not think a friend would have trouble with this.

toolmakerjim · Sep 18, 2007

i dont understand the resistance to this idea.

when i was contracting for Boeing i worked several times with a guy out of Houston Tx that had a complete shop and he would rent time to people to run jobs. at the time i think he charged $25. @ hr. and he had timers on the machines. if power was on they got charged.
these were conventional machines and were paid for so other than his overhead, mostly power his building was paid for, it was pure profit.

i would like to have several CNC's and rent them out to machinist' or even hobbyist' as long as i kept a eagle eye on them...jim

Barry Weeks · Sep 18, 2007

I think it's a great idea. If you trust him (you said he is an old machinist friend of yours, so I'm assuming you do), and you have open machine time, and he needs to use a bigger machine, why not work together? I would do something like this: He gets the job, buys the material, loads/unloads parts, and handles the paperwork. You provide the machine, tooling, and program the job. Take what he gets for the job, subtract the cost of the material right off the top, and split the rest. Sounds like a win/win to me.

implmex · Sep 19, 2007

Hi Micro:
I had a gunsmith rent my Haas for a couple of 2 month stints to make a run of telescopic sights for vintage black powder rifles.
I did the programming and the setup; he ran the program and loaded the blanks.
I charged him full shop rate for my time, and 50% of shop rate for run time.
I made good money, he was happy that he didn't have to learn CNC and it was a lot cheaper for him than farming the parts out.
I made him buy all his own cutters, and he was super fussy about finishes, so he used up a pile of them.
If your buddy is not a cowboy, I'd have no problem with renting out your CNC...there's not a lot can go wrong if you've done the programming and setup...unless he's a moron or a jerk.
Cheers

Marcus

nmachine · Sep 19, 2007

I rent from a buddy alot. I don't mess up his scedule as far as set his jobs back up. I pay 25 am hour for lathe time on his mazak. I keep track of my own time and set it up program ect.
Works out good. I just did 7 hours of work free on my cnc mill to get him out of a bind. Its good to help eack other in todays world. TO many people only look out for no 1 at all costs anymore. Favors for friends in this trade makes this trade more interesting by knowing what people got going on in different industries.

metlmunchr · Sep 19, 2007

I agree the 50/50 split mentioned by Marcus and Barry sounds fair. A friend who has a shop a couple miles from us uses my 12x48 surface grinder once in a while for things that are too big for his own grinder. He's forgotten more about running a surface grinder than I'll ever know, so when he asked me about doing some grinding I considered the type work he does and suggested he bring it on over and have at it. He's got cnc wire and sinker edm's and anytime I need something done he does it and tells me what its worth so I can add it to the cost of the job. We don't swap any money on the grinding or edm work, but it works out about even in the long term and neither of us are keeping score.

OTOH, if he's quoting something that's got blanchard work involved, I give him a price on the grinding and get the work if he gets the job. That work is all full shop rate and generally turns out a nice profit. We sorta extend each other's capabilities and it works out well for both of us because there's very little overlap in the types of work we do, so there's no concern about stealing customers, secrecy, and so forth.

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