Haas deep hole drilling

nmachine · Apr 22, 2017

I am trying to drill 7.5 .177 holes. Is there a canned cycle that will let me start say 2inches deep in a and peck from there bur return to an r plane of say -.1 to clear chips then continue drilling from down in the part. Almost like to r planes. Otherwise i cut air the first 2inches of every part. I have about 1000 holes to do. Or has anyone had good luck gun drilling on a haas vertical with 300 psi through spindle coolant? Parts are almost 15 inches long so we are drilling from both ends. Material is 12L14 witch is great. I have looked at some coolant through solid carbide drills but at almost 450. a swing that is scary if they start breaking.

JCarroll · Apr 22, 2017

nmachine said:
I am trying to drill 7.5 .177 holes. Is there a canned cycle that will let me start say 2inches deep in a and peck from there bur return to an r plane of say -.1 to clear chips then continue drilling from down in the part. Almost like to r planes. Otherwise i cut air the first 2inches of every part. I have about 1000 holes to do. Or has anyone had good luck gun drilling on a haas vertical with 300 psi through spindle coolant? Parts are almost 15 inches long so we are drilling from both ends. Material is 12L14 witch is great. I have looked at some coolant through solid carbide drills but at almost 450. a swing that is scary if they start breaking.

Why not just send them out for gun drilling?

Larry Dickman · Apr 22, 2017

the only good way I've ever found to do this is by posting the code long hand.

IAmAlex · Apr 22, 2017

If you want to do this yourself and not send them out, you'll probably need a through-spindle drill designed for deeper holes. You are at 42xD, and doing that from each side is still 21xD. When the hole is larger, I have gotten away with drilling deep holes like this without TSC because a bigger drill has a little more strength to it. But for something this size you really need the appropriate tool.

If you do end up getting a 20xD drill, don't be afraid to push it hard and fast. It might seem like the manufacturer specs are way too high, but the hard feed through the hole with no pecking is what keeps the drill loaded up and running straight. I'm a one man shop so no association with Guhring, but I've found their 20-30xD drills to work very well. Last I used was an 1/8" 30xD. They make a great hole on location and run really well using their specs. Note that with drills this long, you typically need to pilot them first to 5xD with a stub length drill.

One more note - if you buy an expensive carbide drill for this and do it from both sides, breaking through to the first hole from the second will destroy the drill, even more so if your second hole is not true to the first. You may want to buy a long, parabolic HSS drill if you can find one to just do the last bit of the hole and breakthrough.

Edit: I just realized you are doing 42xD from BOTH ends. Good luck.

DMF_TomB · Apr 22, 2017

nmachine said:
I am trying to drill 7.5 .177 holes. Is there a canned cycle that will let me start say 2inches deep in a and peck from there bur return to an r plane of say -.1 to clear chips then continue drilling from down in the part. Almost like to r planes. Otherwise i cut air the first 2inches of every part. I have about 1000 holes to do. Or has anyone had good luck gun drilling on a haas vertical with 300 psi through spindle coolant? Parts are almost 15 inches long so we are drilling from both ends. Material is 12L14 witch is great. I have looked at some coolant through solid carbide drills but at almost 450. a swing that is scary if they start breaking.

.
G98 is go to initial Z between holes
G99 is go to R between holes
.
G0 G43 H1 Z2.0
G98 Z1.0
G83 X0. Y0. Z-10. R-4.0 Q0.5 F3.
G80
.
i believe its G98 rapids to R as in down into hole previously drilled
G99 goes to R value between holes so if in hole that aint good when moving to next hole, broke drill
.
thats Fanuc way so check your Haas manual to see if its the same

Ox · Apr 22, 2017

Is there a canned cycle that will let me start say 2inches deep in a and peck from there bur return to an r plane of say -.1 to clear chips then continue drilling from down in the part. Almost like to r planes. Otherwise i cut air the first 2inches of every part.

G0 Z-1.9
G1 Z-8. Fx

Boy, that was daffycult....

You CAM jockies (or canned cycle jockies - as canned cycles are seldom efficient) sure like to spend hours getting your 'putor to post something that you could doo by hand in 10 seconds ...

:rolleyes5:

------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

SwarfsUp! · Apr 22, 2017

One way to make the canned G83 work a little more efficiently (on Haas controllers, anyway) is to use I, J and K arguments instead of Q (peck depth). I is the initial peck depth, J is the subsequent peck decrement, and K is the lower limit on Peck depth. Essentially you can start out with a deep peck and then make less deep pecks until you reach a lower limit, which is just like Q.

nmachine · Apr 22, 2017

Ive used the g73 wi i,j,k values but you still dont get the return to top of hole between pecks.

nmachine · Apr 22, 2017

Ox said:
G0 Z-1.9
G1 Z-8. Fx

Boy, that was daffycult....

You CAM jockies (or canned cycle jockies - as canned cycles are seldom efficient) sure like to spend hours getting your 'putor to post something that you could doo by hand in 10 seconds ...

------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

If i get the through spindle coolant drill this will work, and if you can get that program to peck and retract every .1 with one rapid move and 1 feed move you are the genious your implying to be.

Nerdlinger · Apr 22, 2017

nmachine said:
I have looked at some coolant through solid carbide drills but at almost 450. a swing that is scary if they start breaking.

You should be able to get the distributor to come in and watch you test the $450 drill and not charge you if it breaks as long as they were there to review the application parameters with their approval. I've done it. Going straight in with carbide is nice.

DMF_TomB · Apr 22, 2017

i went on haas web site and they do use G98 and G99
.
G98 initial Z
G99 R or retract
.
pretty basic programming a drill cycle and having to select G98 or G99

deadlykitten · Apr 23, 2017

hy

i would simply add : carefull with dwel durations, so not to force the tool nose when disengaging from material

IAmAlex said:
If you

hey, i am Alex too

nice to met you

DMF_TomB · Apr 23, 2017

i have seen cnc machines where when using a G73 or G83 peck you could set it so at each peck the feed starts above last peck position like 0.010 or 0.100 this is so if big chip is sticking up from last peck, drill dont slam into it at high feed
.
for my machines its a parameter setting. i am not sure how Haas does it.
.
still original question of using rapid to go into previously drilled hole with longer drill i use G98 to set it to use initial Z for when going from one hole to next and R for rapid down into previously drilled hole
i use
G0 G98 Z1.0
G81 X0. Y0. Z-10. R-4.0 F3.0
X6.0
G80
so it goes Z1.0 from hole to next hole but rapids down to Z-4.0 (technically it starts feed a little above Z-4.0 like .010 or however cnc setup in parameters)
.
got to watch G98 and G99, wrong one will break drill if still in the hole and trying to move to next hole

Ox · Apr 23, 2017

nmachine said:
If i get the through spindle coolant drill this will work, and if you can get that program to peck and retract every .1 with one rapid move and 1 feed move you are the genious your implying to be.

Well - to know what is available in coolant through - would help if we knew the size of the hole.
I kan't make any sense of this:

I am trying to drill 7.5 .177 holes.

I have about 1000 holes to do.

I'm thinkin' that inside of 5 minutes you could easilly hand code it to rapid in and back out every so often as required. You could have done it in the time that you posted this thread. And when you divide out the extra 5 minutes programming time by 1000 holes, as compared to running a canned cycle and saving the 5 minutes, I think it will amoritise out pretty well in your favor. It's not "Genious".

With that said tho - If this is in a vert mill - if your 2" deep prior bore is anything bigger than the drilled size - then retracting to clear chips will be the death of any tool that you put in there as the chips will fill the hole. Through the tool coolant and one pass will be the ticket. Or put it in a lathe....

---------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

SeymourDumore · Apr 23, 2017

OK, since noone has mentioned it, here is a solution for you provided by the Haas control, from practically the word go..

There is a setting called "G83 Retract above R", and it is setting 52.

Read here: Page not found | Customer Resource Center

So, in your case you would set Setting 52 to 1.9, and then program as such:

G00 X0 Y0 Z.5
G83 G98 R-2. Z-7.5 Q.2 F.2
X1. Y0
X2. Y0
ETC
ETC
G80
...
(x and y coords assumed of course ...)

What's going to happen is machine rapids to X0 Y0 Z.5, then starts drilling @Z-2. as specified by R, then for each peck, it will retract to Z-.1 as calculated
by R + Setting 52 = -2. + 1.9 = -.1
After the completion of each hole, the G98 sends the tool back to Z.5 as the rapid plane and then moves to the next hole.
Rinse and repeat until done.

Now, Setting 52 might also be accessible from within the running program as well if you have the Macros option enabled.
I believe ( absolutely not sure!!! ) Macro variable 6052 is setting 52.

deadlykitten · Apr 24, 2017

hy

if this helps, please take a look at this code ( you simply write it how you wish ) kindly !

Code:

 safe position
 T...
 rpm
 coolant

 G00 X0 Z2.5
 G01 Z-5         F=V2*0.75  G95 ( slow in )
 G01 Z-45        F=V2 ( normal feed )
 G01 Z-75        F=V2*0.70 ( slower after Z-45 )
 G04             F=V3 ( delay )
 G01 Z=VSIOZ+0.3 ( disengage from material )

 G01 Z2.5        F2000      G94 ( slow out )

 stop spindle
 safe position

SeymourDumore · Apr 24, 2017

deadlykitten said:

hy

if this helps, please take a look at this code ( you simply right it how you wish ) kindly !

Code:

 safe position
 T...
 rpm
 coolant

 G00 X0 Z2.5
 G01 Z-5         F=V2*0.75  G95 ( slow in )
 G01 Z-45        F=V2 ( normal feed )
 G01 Z-75        F=V2*0.70 ( slower after Z-45 )
 G04             F=V3 ( delay )
 G01 Z=VSIOZ+0.3 ( disengage from material )

 G01 Z2.5        F2000      G94 ( slow out )

 stop spindle
 safe position

Kitten, please, no offense meant dude, but come on ...

Would you please search for a different translation app?

deadlykitten · Apr 24, 2017

sorry

.........

PixMan · Apr 24, 2017

FWIW, a 3 step process with coolant through solid carbide drills from Titex gets this done easily, and quick.

First pilot drill, A6181TFT-4.5, 0.35 seconds
Second drill (a 12xD), DC170-12-04.500A1-WJ30EJ, 1.06 seconds
final drill (40xD), A7495TFP-4.5, 11.3 seconds

Add a typical toolchange time x3 and it's probably still under 16 seconds per hole. All standard stock drills. Bring them in on a Guaranteed Test Order, let the rep be there to prove it out at no risk.

The 300psi coolant is fine. The last drill does the most work so life is showing as 239 holes, but that's without tweaking speed and feed for longer life. You get a couple in rotation for reconditioning and keep running. The other two drills last longer than the total number of holes you need to do.

nmachine · Apr 24, 2017

Mitsubishi is coming in Thursday on a gto for these, I will report results.

Haas deep hole drilling

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