What's new
What's new

Haas Tool Offset a measure of what???

KristianSilva

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 26, 2016
Hi all,

I am working on a Haas ST30 lathe. In the tool offset table there is a figure, in x say -270.167mm and in z say -369.987.

Can somebody please tell me what this offset is a measure of??Id like to know the two points that this distance is measured between to better understand the way the machine works.

Thanks!
 
Hi all,

I am working on a Haas ST30 lathe. In the tool offset table there is a figure, in x say -270.167mm and in z say -369.987.

Can somebody please tell me what this offset is a measure of??Id like to know the two points that this distance is measured between to better understand the way the machine works.

Thanks!
Geometry offsets are the distance from home position to the part zero.
 
Home position is where the machine is when it's homed out. Basically sitting on it's limit switches.

The X offset is the distance to the center of the spindle. That's your X datum.

The Z datum is usually the end of the part where your Z positions are programmed from. That is your work offset Z position (G53).

I set everything off tool 1. The X offsets never change unless I change a tool. The Z offsets are measured against tool 1, and tool 1 Z geometry offset is zero.

I touch off tool 1 to the part, set G54 Z0 to that position. Since all the other tools go from tool 1, that is all I have to do- everything else is already set.
 
There is always different ways of doing things, so it's whatever you like or works for you, so just putting this out there - On the mills I always set my tools off a 1" block on the table, and on a lathe I set me tools on a 1" block on the face of the chuck. The you just measure from those positions to the face of the part and that is my Z offset. That way you can always get back to your reference point and check things, and you only need to change the Z shift between jobs.

Plus that way different operators never had to ask where the tools were set from. It was a standard location, so anyone could walk up to any machine and work on it without a problem.

So whatever you do, standardize it for sure.
 
Like Brian said, there are a number of ways of setting things up. However know that the machine coordinate zero (origin which is in the machine constants and doesn't change) is not the home position. The home position is always relative to the machine origin. That said, Lathe Tool offsets are not usually directly referenced to the machine zero or home position. On a lathe the Machine zero is often a point on the spindle axis that is coincident with the face of the spindle (the spindle nose, not the chuck). The work offset (G54) is usually set relative to this. FWIW on a VMC the machine Z zero is similarly a point in the axis of the spindle coincident with the face of the spindle taper with the Z axis retracted to home. On my lathes equipped with VDI turrets the tool offset is measured from the face of the turret(Z tool offset)and the center of the VDI bore (X tool offset). Home position has nothing to do with it.

µ



Coordination-System-Introduction-on-Sinumerik-808D-–-Video-Tutorial-Turning-Part-6.jpg
 
You have to remember that tool offsets, work offsets, and grid shift are all intertwined and added and subtracted to get the actual tool position. This was hard for me to wrap my head around.

The only thing that matters is that you find a repeatable reference to set your tools and work to, and can tell the control appropriately where the tools and work are in relation to those references.
 
First, I am not exactly,- or to be precise, not at all - clear on what Micro is trying to say, but will take up the challenge of understanding it later tonight
after a few glasses of Hofbrau.

In the meantime however...

Your machine is a Haas ST lathe.
That machine is at home when all axes are at their max travel distance ( upper right corner of the envelope ), and this location is called Machine Zero, and it is
also the G53 coordinate system.
Whatever way you send the machine home, let it be G28 or G00 G53 X0 Y0, it will always travel to this exact location.

Now, the tool offsets.
When you install a new tool, you have to tell the machine what it is and where ( how long ) it is. Regardless how you pick up your tool "locations", it is always referenced
in the machine (G53) coordinate system.
Unfortunately, Haas engineers can be dumber than a freshly cut stump sometimes, and their tool pickup is one of those when it comes to the Z offset.

Let's take the X coordinates first as that one is OK.
After installing the tool, you can:

A: Jog to the toolsetter, and touch the probe. The machine now will read the current G53 X coordinate and adds it to the toolsetter offset value. This number is a pre-determined value
stored in parameters and is specific, calibrated to each machine. The resulted sum is then entered into the tool's X offset register.
What this value represents is the actual total distance required from machine home ( G53 ) to put the tool's tip to the center of rotation, or X0.

B: Without a toolsetter, you jog to a part and make a skim cut. Then, without moving in X you measure the diameter, hit "X Dia Mesur", enter the measured value and hit Enter.
The machine will now read the current G53 X coordinate, and then adds the diameter you've entered.
The resulting sum will once again represent the distance ( travel) required from machine home to put the given tool's tip to X0.

Now to the Z coordinates, and this is where Haas gets stupid.

First, assume the toolsetter is installed, so setting: "T Offs. Measure Uses Work" is set to OFF
Easy-peasy, you touch the setter's Z face, machine reads the G53 Z coordinate and enters it into the appropriate offset register.

Without toolsetter, you can still do the exact same thing. Leave the above parameter OFF, take your tool and touch off to a known, permanent fixed
reference. This can be anything of your choosing, gage block on the chuck face is common. When the tip is in contact with this reference block, hit "Z face mesur"
on the control, machine reads the G53 Z coordinate, enters it into the offset register and done.

In both cases the value in the tool's Z offset register represent the distance of travel required to get from machine home to either the tool setter OR the fixed reference block.

Lastly, without the toolsetter you can also set the "T Offs. Measure Uses Work" to ON.
This DOES NOT work with a toolsetter installed!!
Instead, it is used when ( such in my case ) the chuck is often replaced with a 2 jaw chuck or a collet chuck or a faceplate or ...
In any of those cases you would loose the fixed reference point, and all your tools would have to be re-picked again in Z
But, with this setting ON, you can take a KNOWN tool, ANY KNOWN tool ( nut just Nr1 or Master tool or Boss tool ) but ANY of the already picked up tools, clean the
face of your part and hit "Z Offs. Mesur" in the G54 work offset.
After this you can just take a newly installed tool, jog to this freshly cut face, touch it and hit the same "Z Offs. Mesur" but this time for the Tool's Z offset value.
In this case the machine will read the actual G53 Z position, adds it to the Z value in the G54 work offset and the result is entered for the tool Z.
This ensures that all tools will be referenced to the very same length.

May sound a bit confusing the way I wrote it, but that is the best I can do.
So, basically the answer to the OP's question is that in the case of a Haas lathe, the offset value represents the distance from machine zero ( or machine home ) to the
center of spindle rotation for X, and either the toolsetter OR the fixed reference in Z, OR ... in case of the last possibility, to the "imaginary" fixed reference.:willy_nilly:
 
First, I am not exactly,- or to be precise, not at all - clear on what Micro is trying to say, but will take up the challenge of understanding it later tonight
after a few glasses of Hofbrau.

In the meantime however...

Your machine is a Haas ST lathe.
That machine is at home when all axes are at their max travel distance ( upper right corner of the envelope ), and this location is called Machine Zero, and it is
also the G53 coordinate system.
Whatever way you send the machine home, let it be G28 or G00 G53 X0 Y0, it will always travel to this exact location.

Now, the tool offsets.
When you install a new tool, you have to tell the machine what it is and where ( how long ) it is. Regardless how you pick up your tool "locations", it is always referenced
in the machine (G53) coordinate system.
Unfortunately, Haas engineers can be dumber than a freshly cut stump sometimes, and their tool pickup is one of those when it comes to the Z offset.

Let's take the X coordinates first as that one is OK.
After installing the tool, you can:

A: Jog to the toolsetter, and touch the probe. The machine now will read the current G53 X coordinate and adds it to the toolsetter offset value. This number is a pre-determined value
stored in parameters and is specific, calibrated to each machine. The resulted sum is then entered into the tool's X offset register.
What this value represents is the actual total distance required from machine home ( G53 ) to put the tool's tip to the center of rotation, or X0.

B: Without a toolsetter, you jog to a part and make a skim cut. Then, without moving in X you measure the diameter, hit "X Dia Mesur", enter the measured value and hit Enter.
The machine will now read the current G53 X coordinate, and then adds the diameter you've entered.
The resulting sum will once again represent the distance ( travel) required from machine home to put the given tool's tip to X0.

Now to the Z coordinates, and this is where Haas gets stupid.

First, assume the toolsetter is installed, so setting: "T Offs. Measure Uses Work" is set to OFF
Easy-peasy, you touch the setter's Z face, machine reads the G53 Z coordinate and enters it into the appropriate offset register.

Without toolsetter, you can still do the exact same thing. Leave the above parameter OFF, take your tool and touch off to a known, permanent fixed
reference. This can be anything of your choosing, gage block on the chuck face is common. When the tip is in contact with this reference block, hit "Z face mesur"
on the control, machine reads the G53 Z coordinate, enters it into the offset register and done.

In both cases the value in the tool's Z offset register represent the distance of travel required to get from machine home to either the tool setter OR the fixed reference block.

Lastly, without the toolsetter you can also set the "T Offs. Measure Uses Work" to ON.
This DOES NOT work with a toolsetter installed!!
Instead, it is used when ( such in my case ) the chuck is often replaced with a 2 jaw chuck or a collet chuck or a faceplate or ...
In any of those cases you would loose the fixed reference point, and all your tools would have to be re-picked again in Z
But, with this setting ON, you can take a KNOWN tool, ANY KNOWN tool ( nut just Nr1 or Master tool or Boss tool ) but ANY of the already picked up tools, clean the
face of your part and hit "Z Offs. Mesur" in the G54 work offset.
After this you can just take a newly installed tool, jog to this freshly cut face, touch it and hit the same "Z Offs. Mesur" but this time for the Tool's Z offset value.
In this case the machine will read the actual G53 Z position, adds it to the Z value in the G54 work offset and the result is entered for the tool Z.
This ensures that all tools will be referenced to the very same length.

May sound a bit confusing the way I wrote it, but that is the best I can do.
So, basically the answer to the OP's question is that in the case of a Haas lathe, the offset value represents the distance from machine zero ( or machine home ) to the
center of spindle rotation for X, and either the toolsetter OR the fixed reference in Z, OR ... in case of the last possibility, to the "imaginary" fixed reference.:willy_nilly:

Thank you! The penny has now dropped! Great explanation, has made things a lot clearer in my min now! :)

Next question!

So in the work zero offsets table, what are those figures a measure from/to??

They are a measure from the point at which your tools have been touched off to the datum of your job arent they?
 
Lastly, without the toolsetter you can also set the "T Offs. Measure Uses Work" to ON.
This DOES NOT work with a toolsetter installed!!
Instead, it is used when ( such in my case ) the chuck is often replaced with a 2 jaw chuck or a collet chuck or a faceplate or ...
In any of those cases you would loose the fixed reference point, and all your tools would have to be re-picked again in Z
But, with this setting ON, you can take a KNOWN tool, ANY KNOWN tool ( nut just Nr1 or Master tool or Boss tool ) but ANY of the already picked up tools, clean the
face of your part and hit "Z Offs. Mesur" in the G54 work offset.
After this you can just take a newly installed tool, jog to this freshly cut face, touch it and hit the same "Z Offs. Mesur" but this time for the Tool's Z offset value.

We do it like this, the tool arm on the Haas is worthless, i don't know who uses them in automatic mode, but they are double worthless in that case because if you put anything of any size in your chuck you have interference. Also the thing has always proven to be off by some amount and we end up making compensation corrections anyway. Lastly i have not had an operator who has not crashed the things, myself included, its very easy to do.


In this case the work offsets are a measure of the distance from the home position to the tool, relative tot he tool you use as work offset.
 
Thank you! The penny has now dropped! Great explanation, has made things a lot clearer in my min now! :)

Next question!

So in the work zero offsets table, what are those figures a measure from/to??

They are a measure from the point at which your tools have been touched off to the datum of your job arent they?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The work offset (as shown in the picture I posted) is relative to the machine zero (not home position). So if in your G54 (or G53) you have Z4 X0, that means your work offset is +4 inches from the machine origin in Z and on the spindle axis. The machine origin is usually at the face of the spindle and coincident with the spindle axis.
 
When I was setting up my Mits controller, I found it pretty confusing, too. The controller doesn't really care at all what the axis values of the turret are at home position, but it mattered to me. So I jumped through a few hoops in setting up parameters until I got the coordinates of the G53 home position to correspond to the real position of Tool 1 with respect to the axis centerline and distance of Tool 1 from the chuck face (I never remove the chuck from this machine, it is a major undertaking requiring disassembly of the chuck to get at the bolts). So the machine doesn't home to zero at the face of the chuck on centerline, rather it homes to a set of coordinates. Technically, it zeroes there and then assigns coordinates to that point.

Typically I can manually set up a G54Z by measuring from the chuck face to the end of the part with a tape measure, which gets the tool fairly close to position on first approach. Then I switch to jog mode and do the actual touch up or facing and observe the difference in Z position from G54Z0 (the guesstimated one) and adjust the G54 again.

You probably can't mess with a Haas this way, don't know.
 
So in the work zero offsets table, what are those figures a measure from/to??

They are a measure from the point at which your tools have been touched off to the datum of your job arent they?


That's exactly correct, they are the distance FROM your toolsetter or the fixed reference point TO the datum of your workpiece.

This is all logical.
First, the tool offsets define the distance required to travel from Home to a constant point ( setter or reference ), then the workoffset define the
distance between the constant point to the workpiece.


Sidenote: I'm still struggling with Micro's origin being the face of the spindle .... :scratchchin:
 
Not bad Zero, but lathes also have G54- Gwhatever.

I like the "sick" comment about the weirdly homing machines.
As for one, the Makino wires home in the middle of their X and Y travels, so G53 can be either positive or negative on either axis.
 
Not bad Zero, but lathes also have G54- Gwhatever.

I like the "sick" comment about the weirdly homing machines.
As for one, the Makino wires home in the middle of their X and Y travels, so G53 can be either positive or negative on either axis.

Hmm HAAS lathe has actual work offsets?
Didn't know about that one!

All the lathes i worked on did not. thanks for the tip.
 
Hmm HAAS lathe has actual work offsets?
Didn't know about that one!

All the lathes i worked on did not. thanks for the tip.


Actually Zero

All my other lathes have true workoffsets.
The Duraturn with the Fanuc OiTc and the NL with the Mits MSX-850 have G54 through G59, while the Haas has G54-G59, and then 99 extended workoffsets
from G54-P1 through P99
 
Actually Zero

All my other lathes have true workoffsets.
The Duraturn with the Fanuc OiTc and the NL with the Mits MSX-850 have G54 through G59, while the Haas has G54-G59, and then 99 extended workoffsets
from G54-P1 through P99
I only worked on Hurco and Okuma lathes, so I guess I shoud not have judged by the few I used.

Now I realize that my memory failed me on Hurco, at least. It did too have work offsets and I even used them for some barfeed jobs.(something along the lines of using partoff tool in two operations and setting its offset differently.)

Not so sure about Okuma, though. I have not found any other table to enter other than the main work offsets. There could have been some work offset shift codes, to do the same.

Either way, sorry for derailing the thread with my ignorance :)
 
so I guess I shoud not have judged by the few I used.

Nonetheless, the link you've posted earlier is very informative for the start up guys.
Infinitely more so than at least one of the Haas "guru" videos where they show you how to pick up your milling tools to the very same f"in part
you're about to machine!

Rant:
It is inf@ckingsane that in the year of 2017 anyone - let alone an MTB - posts a video on how to pick up tools to the part rather than a fixed reference.
Rant Off.
 
Nonetheless, the link you've posted earlier is very informative for the start up guys.
Infinitely more so than at least one of the Haas "guru" videos where they show you how to pick up your milling tools to the very same f"in part
you're about to machine!

Rant:
It is inf@ckingsane that in the year of 2017 anyone - let alone an MTB - posts a video on how to pick up tools to the part rather than a fixed reference.
Rant Off.

That link I posted earlier covers just the work offsets.
In this one I go over the Tool Length offsets and how they interact with part and machine zero.

I don't want to toot my own horn here, but I wish at my school they taught me something like this:
HSM Machining > Lesson 5: Everything about CNC Tool Length Offsets. Positive and Negaive (G43 g-code, H offset) instead of showing how to set tool length with paper off of a rough top of the part. In general I was amazed at how many people would re-set all offsets before machining a new part (cause TOS changed, duh!).:crazy:
 








 
Back
Top